Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Kotlin Foundation

kotlinlang.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 236 posts

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#181

Post by vips7L »

mkurz wrote: post #129
brabel wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java developers are spoiled for choice. There's everything, from the simplest possible https://sparkjava.com/ , to the a little bit nicer https://javalin.io/ (which has a Kotlin wrapper), to the high performance and full framework https://vertx.io/ (which always had great multi-lingual support within the JVM), to the newer and GraalVM-friendly https://micronaut.io/ and https://quarkus.io/ ... for the Enterprise-only…

You forgot https://www.playframework.com/

Never again. Play is one the worst things I've had to work in. Too much scala when you're just trying to Java.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#182

Post by dehrmann »

brabel wrote: post #139
dehrmann wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another thing I'd like to see changed is better support for DSL's I keep waiting for a good solution for SQL in Java (or another language) that isn't a builder or a string with templating. I don't like what React does architecturally, but JSX shows how mixing languages in an elegant-ish way can be huge.

You and the PC probably would be happy with Groovy, specially with them adding a SQL DSL now: https://github.com/apache/groovy/blob/master/subprojects/gro... Groovy DSLs are much better than Kotlin's.

Gradle, perhaps unfairly, left me not liking Groovy.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#183

Post by yannoninator »

steveklabnik wrote: post #160
yannoninator wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the structure that I am concerned about. Again, I'd rather have them just sponsor Rust, why wasn't a gold or platinum sponsorship like structure considered without placing them on the board of directors. How about a corporate membership without voting rights?

Right, but the structure is a secondary concern, in that you're concerned about the structure because it enables particular actions. What kind of vote are you worried about?

> Right, but the structure is a secondary concern,

If it was the primary concern we wouldn't be having this conversation, lots of foundations have this structure.

Right now, it is more likely that Facebook would get on the board before I can even donate.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#184

Post by steveklabnik »

yannoninator wrote: post #183
steveklabnik wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but the structure is a secondary concern, in that you're concerned about the structure because it enables particular actions. What kind of vote are you worried about?

> Right, but the structure is a secondary concern, If it was the primary concern we wouldn't be having this conversation, lots of foundations have this structure. Right now, it is more likely that Facebook would get on the board before I can even donate.

Okay. I still don’t understand specifically what your concern is. I would love to understand, but I’ll drop it. Given the scope of the foundation and what it is and is not in charge of, I find this attitude very confusing.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#185

Post by dang »

nindalf wrote: post #135
mrmonkeyman wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This lacks nuance. You ignore the effect they have on the ecosystem as a whole. Mentioning the "Go community" and their "agreement" of Google's decisions without acknowledging this is disingenuous at best. They have already swayed and gatekept large swaths of the (web)development "community" by their decade-long dominance and no one can make an impactful, meaningful decision in that field without their implicit appro…

Your comment lacks any content. You make vague claims of "effect on the ecosystem" without mentioning what that is. Give an example. Can people not create web frameworks? Can people not create products hosted on the web? Can people not use AWS or Azure for all their computing needs? You can't just claim "everything they touch sucks" without a single example or evidence to back it up. You look like a hater.

Whoa, please don't post in the flamewar style to HN and please don't cross into personal attack. Those things aren't allowed here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#186

Post by dang »

cambalache wrote: post #162
nindalf wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the ad hominem attack. FYI, I have no google stock, never worked for google, have never contributed to a google open source project. If they’re supposed to be paying me for pointing out common sense on this thread ... they’re late on their payment.

> Thanks for the ad hominem attack. FYI, I have no google stock, never worked for google, have never contributed to a google open source project. If they’re supposed to be paying me for pointing out common sense on this thread ... they’re late on their payment. If this is true (I doubt it) it is even sadder

Please don't break the HN guidelines like this. We're trying for something quite different here.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#187

Post by erik_seaberg »

The_Colonel wrote: post #152
chrisseaton wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why bother using Kotlin? Seems like it fixes trivial things (makes simple classes a bit more terse) but retains the more fundamental problems and hangs on for Java to actually fix those.

Kotlin fixes just trivial things - like nullability for example. Java still doesn't have a good solution, only about 5 bad ones and nothing is in sight. It even looks like Java designers simply don't consider it a problem anymore ... Instead, they focus on things like value types. Which are definitely cool, but they don't actually solve any of my problems. Typical business apps written in Java don't suffer from perfo…

When teams go so far as to consider alternatives to the JVM, memory footprint and poorly tuned GC are typical reasons.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#188

Post by arusahni »

cwzwarich wrote: post #69
arusahni wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebKit has to be open source because it's a KHTML fork.

This isn't actually true. KHTML is LGPL 2.0, so you can release source code for the pieces you modified and binary blobs for the rest. WebKit proper (as opposed to WebCore, which was based on KHTML, and JavaScriptCore, which was based on KJS) was originally not open source.

Interesting. Thanks for the correction!

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#189

Post by erik_seaberg »

melling wrote: post #31

Interesting to watch Kotlin develop. It came in and filled the niche that i always thought Scala would fill. I’ve been doing mostly Swift for the past several years, and i love it. Scala 3 looks interesting but it seems to be moving slowly. I look forward to having another Java option if I ever get back to that platform. Java was cool in 1998 but after Swift, I’ll need something nicer on the JVM

I like Scala but it's pretty complicated. I'm hoping Kotlin might be just approachable enough for the masses that we can drop the boilerplate that Java still requires.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#190

Post by jgimenez »

brabel wrote: post #92

This is great for Kotlin! But I need to make an observation about Google... They're also co-founders of the Rust Foundation[1], the major member of the select group of companies at the table at WHATWG[2] (which amongst other things decide on the future of web technologies, including JavaScript) due to their browser's market share, and a "visionary sponsor" of the Python Foundation[3]. They also develop a few programm…

What's in it for them, though? Just being users of a language does mean they need to back them up financially or set up foundations or influence them in any way
Post reply on HN