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“I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

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Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#451

Post by lawrjone »

brmgb wrote: post #448
joshuak wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you're the kind of person that actually sits and reads the EULA prior to hitting OK every single time, I'd say it makes complete sense people are up in arms. There is a difference between legally defensible and reasonable expectations. It is actually completely unacceptable on what is advertised as a secure platform to engage in targeted marketing AT ALL. If any information about what my company is doing on yo…

> It is actually completely unacceptable on what is advertised as a secure platform to engage in targeted marketing AT ALL. If any information about what my company is doing on your platform is shared to other companies, then you are not secure by any definition of the word that I'm aware of. It is not for you to judge what information is valuable or damaging for us. Security and data sharing have nothing in common.…

Not who you are replying to, but I'd imagine your point:

> If you so value your company information, maybe you should start reading what you sign.

Is exactly what people are up in arms about. Even reading the EULA, you may not expect Microsoft to permit data sharing in this way. And if this is entirely unacceptable for you, then it's time to leave Microsoft.

Or you can make noise about it online like this, and cause Microsoft to realise this sharing will lose them customers. I doubt the data is worth the churn, and Microsoft will likely change the policy rather than lose the customers.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#452

Post by SilasX »

that_guy_iain wrote: post #438
SilasX wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people would view the message as being marketed to. The employee was referred to as a salesperson. Any difference from marketing is pedantic.

The legal difference is important. No court would ever agree that “I’m your point of contact” is marketing anything. And since it was about the legal agreement between Microsoft and Cannonical the legal difference is anything but pedantic.

Courts look at the intent of contracts in the minds of the signers, not hyper literal readings of fixed-in-stone words. When both MS and Canonical agree that this breached acceptable usage, it’s time to give up that fight.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#453

Post by sudosysgen »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #449
sudosysgen wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trick used in the US is that if you do not offer this information you get a ridiculously short legal-minimum warranty.

In over two decades of buying appliances and electronics, I’ve never seen a device in the US offer a longer warranty if you send in your information.

Really? This happened to me at least ten times, and I'm not even American, just sometime buy devices directly from the US. For example, my LG phone comes with an additional year if you register your device.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#454

Post by toyg »

bregma wrote: post #288
toyg wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I wouldn't put down Ubuntu's traditional attitude as "we'll copy something so we can own it" - it's more of a "we'll do whatever we think is better for the experience we provide, screw the community". Which is still misguided and fundamentally doomed to fail in the long run, but not as malicious as, say, Apple's moves. At the end of the day the scorecard reads: - Mir: failed - Unity: failed - Snap: mostly faili…

Mir is still going as one of the better Wayland compositors out there. Unity didn't fail: ongoing development on it was cancelled because there was no way to successfully monetize it. It was, and remains, one of the most successful desktops out there.

Everybody knows how the FOSS ecosystem works: if you don’t get buy-in from the community, a project dies. Unity wasn’t adopted by the community, and as soon as sugar-daddy money ran out, it died. That’s what failure looks like on the Linux desktop.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#455

Post by that_guy_iain »

SilasX wrote: post #452
that_guy_iain wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The legal difference is important. No court would ever agree that “I’m your point of contact” is marketing anything. And since it was about the legal agreement between Microsoft and Cannonical the legal difference is anything but pedantic.

Courts look at the intent of contracts in the minds of the signers, not hyper literal readings of fixed-in-stone words. When both MS and Canonical agree that this breached acceptable usage, it’s time to give up that fight.

Neither company as far as I can tell agreed to that. Cannonical said it was a poor choice of words and in light of that review their policies. Aka tell people not to be so creepy. Microsoft just stated what the terms were. Unless there have been new statements released which I doubt since legal would probably have a fit if someone did that.

As I said no court would ever agree that “I’m your point of contact” is marketing.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#456

Post by efreak »

stonesweep wrote: post #393
lord_erasmus wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What search engine are you using ? The first result when typing "ubuntu iso" in Google leads to a page where the first button is a link to a direct download. For "ubuntu server iso" it's pretty much the same, with just one extra click

We are not talking about the same thing - those first hits are the "Live" ISO not the actual installation ISO; the "Legacy" (their word) installation ISO is the 7th link down on Google for "ubuntu server iso" below the Google injected "People also ask:" with a bunch of whatever you call those things they put there (forum and mailing list links usually).

Doesn't the live cd present a boot menu with a direct install option like others do? If not, that's even more annoying; it already requires a DVD these days because they have to include too much software, they should certainly be able to include a tui installer.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#457

Post by NullPrefix »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #414
NullPrefix wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminds of the famous Bill Clinton qoute >It Depends on what the meaning of the word is is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0

Except he had a perfectly legitimate point there, as far as I understand, he just utterly botched the explanation. There's a big difference between "is" and "was". Which is what he should have said. There were no semantic games in that particular statement, in stark contrast to some of the other things he said.

I'm sorry, but I am not completely aware of the broader context and just shared that soundbite as meme.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#458

Post by ethbr0 »

IgorPartola wrote: post #370
ethbr0 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is that Azure owns complete access to the customer. Which seems... well, an easy skip to App Store-esque rent seeking. So MS sharing "their" customer details with the image provider seems more generous than evil. Provided there's a "Do not share" config option somewhere.

So if I write a piece of software that eventually makes it to Debian and Ubuntu, am I entitled to your name, address, phone number, email, and a data feed showing every time you start or stop your Ubuntu instances on Azure? After all, I am a third party software provider at that point. And look, Azure doesn’t even have to tell you they are sending me all that stuff. It’s in the TOS you didn’t read!

If I choose to run an image maintained by IgorPartola, sure!

If I download packages and Ubuntu, and assemble my own image, or use one assembled by another org, probably not.

I think the disconnect is that for me, image packaging and updating is work, and that work has an author, and the author is deserving of certain rights others are not.

If Azure is auto-pulling Ubuntu images, building containers, and publishing themselves, then that's a different story.

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#459

Post by juststeve »

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #120
kube-system wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The code is gratis. Although, partnership deals tend to go beyond simply sharing code, and into the realm of dedicating time and resources to working with each other.

The code is more than just gratis; it's libre . This is Ubuntu, based on Debian GNU/Linux. (Yeah, okay, some of the code is merely gratis, but most of it is libre.) I don't expect an OS based on an OS based on an OS based on a half-finished OS based on free software principles to have shady data-dealing attached, yet hidden from the people whose data is being dealt.

another vector here is the WSL

Re: “I saw that you spun up an Ubuntu image in Azure”

#460

Post by Dylan16807 »

NullPrefix wrote: post #457
Dylan16807 wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except he had a perfectly legitimate point there, as far as I understand, he just utterly botched the explanation. There's a big difference between "is" and "was". Which is what he should have said. There were no semantic games in that particular statement, in stark contrast to some of the other things he said.

I'm sorry, but I am not completely aware of the broader context and just shared that soundbite as meme.

It's fine and understandable, it's just weird how the meme version is so detached from what the actual problems were.
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