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Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

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81–90 of 106 posts

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you so much for your feedback! We like to stay away from those aspects as it can be off putting for people who don't subscribe to a certain philosophy or theology. We, instead try to make more approachable for everyone where you don't need to believe in anything other than spreading kindness to yourself and others. We certainly pay homage to where the traditions come from when we talk about the practice, for ex…

In doing this you are completely divorcing a people's fundamental belief system and heritage from them so that "people who don't subscribe to" the existence of that people's heritage, culture and belief system don't feel offended. This is complete cultural appropriation and you should stop perpetuating it while making money off of it.

If we as a species didn't "culturally appropriate", the world would be hundreds of years behind in terms of progress. Invention itself is built on the idea of taking pre-existing concepts, combining and adapting them in new contexts. The idea that you can't borrow some existing body of knowledge because it's inherently sacrosanct and cannot be divided is just patently absurd.

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we call Yoga in the west is mostly appropriation. The rest is misunderstanding because the concept does not fit in thinking western minds. The best we get is what tae bo is to professional boxing. Source: conversations and experiences with someone who had the fortune to study both in New Delhi yoga university and with a Yoga lineage in the Himalayas. The official university still didn’t touch, or know, of essent…

What practices specifically in yoga do you speak of? I honestly appreciate that people in the west have secularized both yoga and meditation, as I personally find no value in the spiritual aspects and only find value in the exercise in the case of yoga and helping psychologically in the case of meditation. I'm curious to hear your perspective though, it seems to be different from mine.

Yoga in the west is an effective stretching technique, with inspiring names and imaginary. So, very good indeed, but nothing to do with the source.

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#83
Speaking as a former meditation teacher who attained High Equanimity [1] and saw through the non-self mark of existence [2]: what you're doing is a complete corruption of the heritage of meditation and is dangerous.

I'm speaking strictly from a secular point of view now, what you are teaching has nothing to do with meditation. Meditation is a practice with a clear line of progression. We have markers and waypoints for every stage of a meditator's journey to seeing the conditioned nature of reality.

If you want to continue with your product, I strongly urge you to call it something else because they will be confused that what they are practicing has anything to do with a thousands of years old series of techniques that are well-defined and established and predicated on four simple truths: the observance of suffering, its origin, its extinction and the path leading to its extinction.

I want to add for the purpose of disclosure: I am no longer a meditation teacher and have backslid greatly in my practice. My historical comments should not be taken as the examples of right ethics which would be expected of a highly attained practitioner. Intellectually, however, I feel I must condemn a product that risks harm by association to a beautiful, clear system which can be walked by anyone to achieve a calm, kind mind.

If people are curious about meditation, Headspace is a solid intro to these techniques started by a former monk with decades of experience.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vipassan%C4%81-%C3%B1%C4%81%...

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_marks_of_existence#:~:....

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#84

Love what you are building! I'm a huge fan of meditation but haven't found one I can keep with. I've tried all the apps but fall off after a couple of sessions or weeks. I'm going to sign up for the free trial. Do you recommend any classes, preferably shorter ones, that I should start with?

[deleted]

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In doing this you are completely divorcing a people's fundamental belief system and heritage from them so that "people who don't subscribe to" the existence of that people's heritage, culture and belief system don't feel offended. This is complete cultural appropriation and you should stop perpetuating it while making money off of it.

If we as a species didn't "culturally appropriate", the world would be hundreds of years behind in terms of progress. Invention itself is built on the idea of taking pre-existing concepts, combining and adapting them in new contexts. The idea that you can't borrow some existing body of knowledge because it's inherently sacrosanct and cannot be divided is just patently absurd.

Cultural appropriation refers to the use of objects or elements of a non-dominant culture in a way that doesn't respect their original meaning, give credit to their source, or reinforces stereotypes or contributes to oppression. - Google

The problem here is not invention. The problem here is that aliabramovitz and company "like to stay away from those [theological] aspects as it can be off putting for people who don't subscribe to a certain philosophy or theology", in a subject matter where the original theology is a core part of it, and that too a theology that is not aliabramovitz's own theology in order to cater to people who dislike the theology of the original owners of the practice.

So no, white people stealing other peoples practices and bastardizing them !== Invention necessary for the world to progress.

It is simply stealing and removing the original in order to cater to Abrahamics and to make money.

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#86
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey! You're so right and we are working on making a demo available on the website - but in the meantime, let me just share one we have in our system -- here ya go: https://docsend.com/view/hxra3rnfevsytg4v

I'm not familiar with meditation; I hear it's all the rage but I don't understand the benefits. It is said to "reduce stress", but stress is mostly the result of external stimuli. It's a symptom, like fever. If you treat the symptom without addressing the cause, what good is it? Meditation sounds like a post-religion religion, but at least there was the promise of silence. Now we have loud meditation? To me this vide…

> stress is mostly the result of external stimuli.

This is a common misconception when the concept of biological stress is applied to humans. It stems from the correct observation that an increase in external stressors usually increases stress.

If you are interested in the science, two helpful models to conceptualise stress are Lazarus' stress model [1] and the jobs-demands-resources model [2].

Stress is the result of a lack of resources to deal with demands (stressors), not stressors themselves! As an example, most of us will never be air traffic controllers, simply because we would not be able to deal with the demands.

This is not to say the most effective way to treat stress isn't to remove the stressor. It's simply another avenue that can be pursued in parallel, and sometimes the only one available, in particular when stressors are internal (think negative thoughts, phobias, mental health).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appraisal_theory

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_demands-resources_model

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#87

Speaking as a former meditation teacher who attained High Equanimity [1] and saw through the non-self mark of existence [2]: what you're doing is a complete corruption of the heritage of meditation and is dangerous. I'm speaking strictly from a secular point of view now, what you are teaching has nothing to do with meditation. Meditation is a practice with a clear line of progression. We have markers and waypoints fo…

Could you clarify what your understanding of 'meditation'?

There are many different ways to meditate, from different traditions, with different objectives, secular and non-secular, with no/anecdotal/scientific evidence etc., e.g.

* Mindfulness meditation

* Loving kindness meditation

* Transcendental meditation

* Visualisation

* Chanting and praying

* Progressive muscle relaxation

* ...

It feels to me you are defending one particular school of thought (that has given you benefits) rather than meditation?

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you so much for your feedback! We like to stay away from those aspects as it can be off putting for people who don't subscribe to a certain philosophy or theology. We, instead try to make more approachable for everyone where you don't need to believe in anything other than spreading kindness to yourself and others. We certainly pay homage to where the traditions come from when we talk about the practice, for ex…

In doing this you are completely divorcing a people's fundamental belief system and heritage from them so that "people who don't subscribe to" the existence of that people's heritage, culture and belief system don't feel offended. This is complete cultural appropriation and you should stop perpetuating it while making money off of it.

Cultural appropriation of something that many members of a culture promote is good. Without it, the only cultural symbols that people can get an intro to are those from European cultures.

-----

That said, I encourage people to read the Bhagavad Gita. As someone who has long appreciated meditation from a secular perspective, I've recently started reading it and am finding it valuable.

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What we call Yoga in the west is mostly appropriation. The rest is misunderstanding because the concept does not fit in thinking western minds. The best we get is what tae bo is to professional boxing. Source: conversations and experiences with someone who had the fortune to study both in New Delhi yoga university and with a Yoga lineage in the Himalayas. The official university still didn’t touch, or know, of essent…

What practices specifically in yoga do you speak of? I honestly appreciate that people in the west have secularized both yoga and meditation, as I personally find no value in the spiritual aspects and only find value in the exercise in the case of yoga and helping psychologically in the case of meditation. I'm curious to hear your perspective though, it seems to be different from mine.

Sukshma

Re: Launch HN: Chorus Meditation (YC W21) – Meditation for Non-Meditators

#90
post #87

Speaking as a former meditation teacher who attained High Equanimity [1] and saw through the non-self mark of existence [2]: what you're doing is a complete corruption of the heritage of meditation and is dangerous. I'm speaking strictly from a secular point of view now, what you are teaching has nothing to do with meditation. Meditation is a practice with a clear line of progression. We have markers and waypoints fo…

Could you clarify what your understanding of 'meditation'? There are many different ways to meditate, from different traditions, with different objectives, secular and non-secular, with no/anecdotal/scientific evidence etc., e.g. * Mindfulness meditation * Loving kindness meditation * Transcendental meditation * Visualisation * Chanting and praying * Progressive muscle relaxation * ... It feels to me you are defendin…

I am happy to clarify, though I believe I did when I specified that the word meditation is associated with the observance of suffering, its origin, its extinction and the path leading to its extinction. There were teachers who taught meditation before the Buddha but one also needs to understand that they were incomplete forms of mind-training which did not lead to the realization of the conditioned nature of reality. [1] The Buddha trained under the best teachers at the time and synthesized them into a whole practice, which when followed to their end led to total liberation, or nirvana/nibbana.

Many of the techniques you highlight descend from the same lineage: mindfulness (vipassana), lovingkindness (metta), and nondirective (of which transcendental owes itself to, Zen was its predecessor). It should be no surprise that the scientific evidence we have available to us has verified the efficacy of mindfulness, has verified the efficacy of lovingkindness. [2]

A meditator's journey may take them through a host of techniques. What's important is they are backed by ethics and deep understanding of what practitioners thousands of years before us were writing. That is a foundation to build on. The Buddha and the teachers who followed built on this foundation. The Chinese synthesists, Mahayana, Vajrayana, all of them established themselves in the foundation of what came before.

The foundation is a tripod. It is not "just" concentration or "just" ethics or "just" awareness, it is these three working together. [3] If you kick one leg out, the whole thing comes crashing down.

Let me also clarify what I mean by dangerous: meditation must be grounded in ethical action, in right understanding of the techniques because one can very easily come to assume a new set of delusions to replace their old, which leads to poor outcomes for themselves and others. People have been dragged from retreats screaming because of latent mental illness or they perceived something they were unprepared for. I myself have observed the total dissolution of self right before my eyes. I was not afraid, I was ready. I owe that fearlessness and confidence to my teachers who selflessly taught with no expectation of monetary gain.

Money itself corrupts the relationship between teacher and student. And we have decades of abuses from self-proclaimed gurus to back this.

Those who declare themselves authorities to remove ethics or wisdom from a system of mind-training because it smacks of religious devotion need to seriously examine their motivations for doing so.

The dhamma is free for anyone to pick up. I could recommend a host of teachers who will give days and years of their life to any prospective students who wish to take up the path, completely for free. And then when you turn your mind to gratitude, to lovingkindness, it will be easy to find a person for which to be gracious to. I owe my life to these people.

I'd like to conclude by really pushing the creators of this project to reconsider associating Chorus with meditation. Even the Wim Hof Method is just the Wim Hof Method.

Chorus on its own is a great name.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da

[2] https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1m_tiYlDIyNpp6WGUgKd5...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threefold_Training

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