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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#681

Post by efwfwef »

sschueller wrote: post #10
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #4

The game Paypal currently plays with Crypto is the closest thing to printing money I have ever seen: Their users can "buy and sell Bitcoin" and pay "no fees". How does Paypal make money? "From the spread". The difference between bid and ask. And who sets the spread? Drumroll ... Paypal! Since you cannot transfer your bitcoins out, when you sell your bitcoins, Paypal pays you whatever they like. So far, Paypal only of…

That is outright scam in my view. They never have to hold bitcoin. They may as well sell paypal coin. Robinhood and Revolut do the same thing. If you can't transfer out your bitcoin, you don't have any bitcoin.

I remember seeing Revolut doing that, worse the price of buying Bitcoin was actually much higher than what you could get on other trading exchanges. What a fucking scam. At the time I didn't understand that people were buying Bitcoin only to gamble with it, and I couldn't wrap my head around buying Bitcoin on Revolut without the ability to move these to a different address.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#682

Post by Geee »

reedjosh wrote: post #625
arcticbull wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happens in many countries already, the inflation tax of the US banking system is 2% and not an issue. That does not make Panama or Hong Kong US colonies.

That 2% number depends upon whether you trust the people inflating the USD to tell you what the inflation rate is. Feel free to call shadowstats crazy, but nothing in it is false. It's just another perspective. http://www.shadowstats.com/alternate_data/inflation-charts

You are right. The official inflation rate is wrong and misleading.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#683

Post by warkdarrior »

throwawaysea wrote: post #54

The last thing I want is to help the MasterCard and Visa duopoly persist, given how many times these companies have polices others by instituting payment blocks on people like Wikileaks. I view cryptocurrency as an alternative to the current financial system and not something meant to be leveraged by these incumbents.

People who want to avoid the "duopoly" can transact directly with the blockchain, no?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#684

Post by efwfwef »

nexthash wrote: post #671
hntrader wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can say the same things about artwork or gold. To me these things are totally useless, paint on a canvas (when I could just look at a photo of the same thing) and a shiny piece of metal, no utility whatsoever, who cares? Well the value doesn't come from one person's assertion of value, it's supply and demand. Apparently enough people like paint on a canvas and shiny metal for their own reasons.

Sorry, but in case you don't have much intuition, let me fill you in. People value gold and artwork because it is beautiful and you can have it for yourself. Gold also has several utilitarian uses. Now compare these things to a digital token. Can I frame and admire a digital token? Can I use it for anything? Do I even understand what it is or how it works most of the time? No. So it therefore has no value for me. Mil…

Yes you can frame and admire a digital token, or rather the address holding the funds.

Gold's value has nothing to do with its utility.

I don't get your people's arguments. You keep repeating "a digital asset can't have real value" when the last 10 years have proven you wrong. You fool!

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#685

Post by hertzrat »

jariel wrote: post #633
vbezhenar wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your view must be skewed by privilege of having stable currency. Currency of my country lost 250% of its value over last 7 years. It's not bitcoin-level volatile, but close to it. Thankfully I have an option to use USD to hoard money, but that option is not something that's given, in many countries you just can't exchange for fair price. I agree that for someone living in US or EU there's no much point using BTC.

" Currency of my country lost 250% of its value over last 7 years. " The problem is not your Central Bank, it's almost assuredly a total dysfunction of government and the civil services - which will have effects more far reaching that Central Bank problems. The solution is not BTC. It's to use something common and trusted, temporarily, like USD or Euros until there is enough credibility in the system for external par…

The average person in your neighbour hood is sitting reading the paper, contemplating: “I’m worried about inflation. should I buy some Bitcoin, or should I overthrow the government? I think I’ll try the overthrow option today”

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#686

Post by dane-pgp »

jkepler wrote: post #596
mcosta wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are only forced to pay taxes in USD.

If its only taxes that are forced on us, why then do US notes say that they're legal tender for all debts public and private. That sounds like force to me: I may want payment in bitcoin or Swiss francs or whatever, but if the payee wants to pay me in USD in the USA, am I free to refuse their payment as non-valid? Or am I forced to accept Federal Reserve Notes?

> if the payee wants to pay me in USD in the USA, am I free to refuse their payment as non-valid?

Yes.

Legal tender for debts only means that you have to accept the notes if you have issued credit to the payer. For example, if they ate at your restaurant and came to settle the bill, they would owe you the amounts printed on the menu for the items that they ordered, but if they came into your cheese shop and wanted to buy some Swiss cheese, you could choose to only carry out the transaction if they paid in Swiss Francs.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#687

Post by denkmoon »

systemvoltage wrote: post #84
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

Really the only time you want to actually spend crypto is for regulated items. Porn + sex related items, and drugs. Maybe firearms and illegal information (ie. stolen credit cards, account credentials, malware).

This move by MC seems at odds with their recent spat with Pornhub, but I would not be the first to accuse financial organisations of hypocrisy.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#688

Post by RhodoGSA »

nexthash wrote: post #655
randomopining wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about encryption?

You don't seem to get it, do you? Your government decides it can't regulate crypto, so it bans it. People use crypto anyway. Government raids telecom and puts filters on Internet. People use encryption. Government shuts down Internet. People use satellite internet. Government make penalty for using crypto a life sentence, because they can. Drives around with vans detecting sat signals. You can't fight them on their t…

Your government can ban bitcoin, but every government would to ban it otherwise you are going to just piss off your populace. They'd also never be able to spin the internet back up without bitcoin spinning right back up with it. Also, Tesla is an s&p 500 company. If they made Tesla lose 1.5B for some philosophical argument about control they would crash the market.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#689

Post by IgorPartola »

panarky wrote: post #599
edgyquant wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We aren’t talking about assets and what you’ve just said is the reason we have controlled inflation. Currency isn’t supposed to incentivize hoarding it, quite the opposite in fact.

Inflation is only "controlled" for some baskets of goods. If your basket of goods consists of salty snacks and consumer electronics, then yes, inflation is controlled. But if your basket of goods consists of Hamptons real estate and fine art, then your inflation rate feels a lot steeper. Investors are finding it very difficult to discover investments that don't depreciate with respect to that second basket of goods.…

Where have you seen real estate get cheaper over time? NYC? SF? Somewhere else?

Also when it comes to setting up an economic system, high net worth individuals are the last people we should be worrying about, not the first.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#690

Post by nexthash »

efwfwef wrote: post #684
nexthash wrote: post #671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, but in case you don't have much intuition, let me fill you in. People value gold and artwork because it is beautiful and you can have it for yourself. Gold also has several utilitarian uses. Now compare these things to a digital token. Can I frame and admire a digital token? Can I use it for anything? Do I even understand what it is or how it works most of the time? No. So it therefore has no value for me. Mil…

Yes you can frame and admire a digital token, or rather the address holding the funds. Gold's value has nothing to do with its utility. I don't get your people's arguments. You keep repeating "a digital asset can't have real value" when the last 10 years have proven you wrong. You fool!

So you pay $40k+ for bitcoin just so you can frame some numbers and letters and say you paid $40k+ for those numbers and letters?

Gold's value comes from the fact that it doesn't dull or dim over time, and has many uses in the electronics and jewelry industries. If you have the resources to get gold and own it, that is a clear sign of status and value.

Can't say the same with crypto for any counts. All of crypto's value comes from speculation. Over the last 10 years, I've seen the same tired drum beat, that 'crypto is valuable because of decentralization, supply regulation, and censorship resistance' but these are so vapid and completely different from reality and what people actually need. There is no convenience, no government backing, and no trust. So the only people using these fake tokens are disreputables and hedge funds/speculators looking to exploit and get fun returns.

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