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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#641

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

imtringued wrote: post #481
ardy42 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Strong currencies are not the solution to poor governance. Good governance and democracy makes a country and its currency strong. Not vice versa. That's a good point. Too many people propose individualist solutions to social problems, and all their "solution" would do is make the social problem worse. I think that stems often stems from an overzealous faith in free markets, which leads to a distorted idea that indi…

Markets only exist within the context of a political system. They are just a tool to reach a certain policy outcome. The idea of using the free market to replace poor governance is laughable. It's the opposite. You have to set the right policies and incentives and only then will the free market show its true beauty. Markets fail or succeed because of improper or proper governance. It's like a genetic/ML algorithm tha…

Suppose you've got two political systems each vying for legitimacy. They each have their own currency, and their own set of policy outcomes.

Is it so laughable that whichever one achieves the best results for its users will be the one to establish both market and political dominance? Is letting such a competition play out via the value of their respective currencies any better than traditional means of resolving this kind of conflict (i.e. war)?

I'm not saying I have ultimate faith in the market to do the right thing--it frequently doesn't. But it sounds like you're saying that it can't.

Granted, BTC's political system involves allocating power based on who can waste the most energy--so it's a pretty laughable alternative to existing governments--but in principle I don't see why markets can't mediate the rise and fall political systems in a way that roughly mirrors the way that political systems mediate the rise and fall of companies.

There's that saying: - Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable.

It seems to me that collectively changing whose currency we use based on their capacity for sound governance is the kind of peaceful revolution that we ought to strive for.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#642

Post by vntok »

pertymcpert wrote: post #580
vntok wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not everyone agrees with that view. I for one would rather people spent their hard-earned money in a smart, slow and well-thought way than feel compelled by inflation to do so fast and lose.

Yeah but that disincentivizes investments.

Another way of looking at it: that incentivizes better investments.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#643

Post by jariel »

reedjosh wrote: post #559
halukakin wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say everyone in an unstable economy were paid in usd. If that country has foreign deficit, if that country has high government debt. What happens? How can the government keep paying its own employees? How does it pay retiree checks? How does it subsidize farming when needed? As long as a country cannot print usd itself, this is a fast shortcut to unemployment, hunger, etc... Strong currencies are not the solution to…

> Say everyone in an unstable economy were paid in usd. Then that country would be paying the unseen tax of inflation as the US banking system prints more and more USD. Said country would basically be a US colony.

Not at all.

It may not be optimal for certain reasons to use USD, and they'd lose some advantages, but there are others to be gained that might make it worth it.

To the extent there are no real capital controls on USD anywhere - and - the US Fed is separate from the government, then nobody is going to be a 'colony' of the US by using USD.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#644

Post by blake1 »

vishnugupta wrote: post #449
halukakin wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Say everyone in an unstable economy were paid in usd. If that country has foreign deficit, if that country has high government debt. What happens? How can the government keep paying its own employees? How does it pay retiree checks? How does it subsidize farming when needed? As long as a country cannot print usd itself, this is a fast shortcut to unemployment, hunger, etc... Strong currencies are not the solution to…

> As long as a country cannot print usd itself, this is a fast shortcut to unemployment, hunger, etc... We don’t even need to make up hypothetical examples. We have a live one in Greece. The Greek citizens went through this exact ordeal for the exact reason you stated. They couldn’t print EUR and the ECB wouldn’t extent monetary support to Greek government.

They were eventually given the right to “print” EUR. One of the many problems with the euro system that periphery countries have unfortunately been subjected too.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#645

Post by dman7 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

We're not actually certain whether Mastercard will include volatile cryptocurrencies, such as Bitcoin. Reading this article (https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/02/mastercard-will-...), their requirements suggest supporting stablecoins (i.e. USDC). These cryptocurrencies are pegged to the dollar and should be backed by a reserve. In that case, your argument about price movements doesn't apply here.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#646

Post by TylerE »

dman7 wrote: post #645
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

We're not actually certain whether Mastercard will include volatile cryptocurrencies, such as Bitcoin. Reading this article ( https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/02/mastercard-will-... ), their requirements suggest supporting stablecoins (i.e. USDC). These cryptocurrencies are pegged to the dollar and should be backed by a reserve. In that case, your argument about price movements doesn't apply here.

That's a rather heavy should. I'd bet dollars to pesos at least some of them are operating fractional reserve schemes, or have the reserve "invested" in crypto.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#647

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

imtringued wrote: post #621
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why you would speculatively buy Bitcoin and hold it long before that happened, at a time when people are happy to accept your fiat currency for Bitcoin. People learning from experience in Venezuela, Zimbabwe, North Korea, would probably feel glad to put some fraction of savings into crypto just in case, knowing that the interim volatility risk of it sitting in crypto is a worthwhile price to pay to have a res…

Ok, now lets say you did the Bitcoin thing and your assets are safe. You are still suffering from poor governance and Bitcoin isn't going to change that one bit.

You can take a bus to Colombia and actually buy food or medicine. You call that nothing, so fine, don’t but Bitcoin if that works for you. It’s surprising you don’t think others might possibly disagree.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#648

Post by radicalriddler »

maceurt wrote: post #123

I am not big on cryptocurrency. Look how the price of these "currencies" fluctuate like crazy, because people buy and treat it like an investment. What is the actual current practical utility of cryptocurrency except for buying/selling illegal things online? People are so horny to get in on the next computer/iphone/etc that they forget that new ideas can fail.

Don't people buy fiat currency as investments? People speculate in the FX markets all the time. How is this any different, rather than it's newer and thus more volatile due to not having found it's place.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#649

Post by randomopining »

catmanjan wrote: post #635
randomopining wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. As larger entities are getting into it, it will decrease the chance that the government cracks down. 2. There are obviously ways to transact anonymously, also P2P/OTC. 3. The government gets to tax all exchange crypto... easy revenue source.

How do you transact in crypto without internet? Maybe that's musk's long term plan with satellites

What about encryption?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#650

Post by [deleted] »

randomopining wrote: post #620
nexthash wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but if a government wants to prevent you from using a cryptocurrency it has many tools at its disposal. Firstly, they control the ground upon which you stand. If they don't like that you are using crypto, they will simply arrest you and charge you with a newly-formed crime like 'digital tax evasion'. Secondly, if they can't find who is using crypto, they have the power to shut down the Int…

1. As larger entities are getting into it, it will decrease the chance that the government cracks down. 2. There are obviously ways to transact anonymously, also P2P/OTC. 3. The government gets to tax all exchange crypto... easy revenue source.

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