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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#321

Post by soheil »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #279
soheil wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why you're assuming we need a pure Bitcoin economy for there to be a network effect. If sufficient number of vendors accept Bitcoin that will be enough to create a network effect. Once you have a network effect with a size less than the size of the entire economy there will always be upside to own Bitcoin since that size can continue to grow.

I don't understand why you're assuming companies would willingly choose to use Bitcoin over banking alternatives. Even companies who transact in Bitcoin generally won't be sending Bitcoin blockchain transactions on the blockchain with all of the associated fees, not to mention risks of keeping your company's money in a computer program where a rogue employee or hacker could simply embezzle the money instantly and irr…

Oh I don't know let me list a few:

  * International transactions easier than regular currencies
  * No third-party seizure
  * Security and control (user autonomy)
  * Anonymity, privacy and no tracking (just make sure your wallet ID is not to your personal ID)
  * No risk of chargebacks (better for vendors)
  * Transparent and neutral (how much did you trust banks in 2008?)
You may not value some of the above and indeed some vendors may not, but I don't think you can say that is true about everyone.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#322

Post by Sargos »

koonsolo wrote: post #319
Sargos wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mastercard is a payment support platform. They take the burden off of the business owners and let them focus on their business instead of the minutia of interfacing with the financial system. That doesn't go away with cryptocurrencies. In fact it might be more needed than ever as there are now multiple payment networks with lots of intricacies such as coin storage, keeping track of transactions for taxes, etc. Visa a…

People can pay with their phone using a simple QR code. Merchants can check on any computer with a web browser. How complex does Mastercard make it right now? Like I said, it's a dinosaur ready to go extinct.

That's from an end users perspective. From a merchant's perspective if they provide that QR code they now have the additional burden of custody of a bunch of crypto assets which means learning about, installing, making a specific bank account to sell the coins, dealing with tax burdens, etc which is a lot of work and risk for someone already overworked and stressed by their primary business.

Or they can just use a payment network like Visa or Mastercard and not have to worry about any of that. You pay with BTC or ETH and the merchant receives USD. Everyone's happy. The merchant doesn't have to hire an additional crypto-specialized IT person or spend 6 months diving down the rabbit hole like we did. They just run their business.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#323

Post by ForHackernews »

trhway wrote: post #307
ForHackernews wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What metric would you prefer?

my favorite is M3 https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MABMM301USM189S Edit: I thought it was obvious, yet in response to comment below - theoretically to get real inflation one has to adjust the M3 for the growth of the total amount of "stuff" in the economy. As that growth is just 1-2%/year , the M3 shape is visually indistinguishable from the real inflation on any given time period of up to several years.

That's not a measure of inflation, it's just a measure of money supply.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#324

Post by waprin »

systemvoltage wrote: post #84
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

I used to think cryptocurrency was a solution in search of a problem, but the Robinhood fiasco has made me think otherwise. I find their clearing house explanation woefully insufficient in details, and open to the possiblity of being technically the truth but misleading (for example, they gave mass margin to lots of new accounts so they technically lacked collateral, but if they stopped new signups then cleared cash non-margin accounts would have been able to freely trade).

Some might call me a conspiracy theorist, but the fact remains there’s no good way to verify any of what they’re telling us is true, other than to trust people with billion dollar reasons to mislead, or rely on an SEC which has repeatedly failed to do its job and stand up to big institutions (see Moody’s subprime ratings, or Robinhood already getting fined by SEC but for trivial amounts).

There’s certainly pump and dumps, fraud and manipulation in crypto, but some could argue a lot of stocks exist right now with terrible fundamentals but huge market caps that nobody labels a pump and dump because “serious” institutions say the valuations are “forward looking.”

All this is to say, finance is a game with massive incentives to deceive and manipulate. We see that in the traditional finance space and in the crypto space . But long term, Id argue in many ways the decentralized nature of crypto lends itself to far more transparency than our traditional systems.

Now, that doesn’t mean it makes sense to buy coffee with crypto, or that a specific coin is the solution, especially one with the type of technical challenges BTC has. But in a broader sense, I do think decentralized finance is starting to look more and more like the future, if the alternative is to continually put trust into institutions that repeatedly betray that trust.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#325

Post by scotty79 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

When Visa and MasterCard will warm up to bitcoin they will have ideal product for all the bitcoin millionaires.

When you are long on bitcoin you almost don't care about volatility. Because you can't predict the future the only good time to buy bitcoin is when you have too much dollars and the only good time when to sell bitcoins is when you have not enough dollars.

Sure, now you have 10 mln dollars in BTC at all tine high, and 2 mln after price drops but in day to day purchases it doesn't matter.

MasterCard could offer joint dollar-bitcoin account that works as follows:

You have some amount of dollars on that account, whenever you pay for something price is deducted from dollar balance.

If dollar balance is insufficient then some portion of bitcoin is sold automatically from your bitcoin balance to give you some multiples of thousands of dollars. You could also have manual trading available if you want to gamble a bit and buy some bitcoins if it dropped to 20% of last ATH or sell some ... I don't know when... when you are drunk and think you can predict the end of the bull run..

Not sure how much bitcoins would someone entrust MasterCard with current bankruptcy law but if it was significant enough amount then all bitcoin millionaires would get to use their fortunes totally hassle free.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#326

Post by vntok »

edgyquant wrote: post #278
panarky wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer to own an asset with high volatility that gets more valuable over time than an asset with low volatility that gets less valuable over time.

We aren’t talking about assets and what you’ve just said is the reason we have controlled inflation. Currency isn’t supposed to incentivize hoarding it, quite the opposite in fact.

Not everyone agrees with that view. I for one would rather people spent their hard-earned money in a smart, slow and well-thought way than feel compelled by inflation to do so fast and lose.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#327

Post by Jtsummers »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #186
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you apply this logic to USD? You either want to hold it or want to use it? Of course it applies. Holding lots of dollars ( e.g. as hard cash or in a checking account) is stupid. That is the purpose and benefit of (mild) inflation: to incentivise consuming or investing them.

Also people don't expect the dollar to become more valuable anytime soon, so spending it doesn't effect seller's remorse a day later, which happens to everyone spending ETH or BTC these days.

And, since USD is inflationary, we expect it to become less valuable (real value) over time which encourages investment and spending today. Since we don't have crazy levels of inflation this doesn't fully discourage savings (with a 10% or higher inflation rate you have very little incentive to save, with 1 or 2% your savings lose value over time, but slow enough that it's still worth saving). Economies are improved and sustained by moving money, not by stagnant money.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#328

Post by [deleted] »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

[deleted]

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#329

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #148
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live in a situation where the only local fiat currency is even worse, then the “volatility fee” of cryptocurrency may be well worth the money to decouple yourself from that bad fiat currency risk. Maybe you can purchase things directly with the cryptocurrency, or maybe you just wait until you can drive across the border to a place with more stable fiat currency, sell cryptocurrency for that currency, and buy m…

> If you live in a situation where the only local fiat currency is even worse Then you start buying and transacting with good old Yankee dollars, as the good people in places like Zimbabwe and Argentina and Cuba and other such places have done, because this is the low volatility option and dollars are widely accepted. You don't buy the cryptocurrencies, as they are subject to wild price swings and only marginally acc…

Gold would specifically not be a good choice in that situation, because you have to pay a custodian to deal with the gold and store it for you. That means either transacting in the original risky fiat currency any time you convert between the currency and gold (such as to buy things), or else transacting in the original risky fiat currency to get a foreign exchange to another currency and then transacting with a custodian - which defeats the whole purpose of converting the asset away from the original fiat currency that exposes untenable risk.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#330

Post by seibelj »

Sargos wrote: post #297
suikadayo wrote: post #121

Everyone on this thread seems to be missing the point that they’ll be working with stablecoins on Ethereum and other smart contracts chains, and not Bitcoin.

Hacker News is still trying to grasp Bitcoin so I feel like Ethereum is going to take another few years to even begin productive discussions.

HN should have been on the cutting edge of crypto, given its “hacker” supposed ethos, but a large group of no-coiners couldn’t understand it and have posted the same tired arguments ad nauseum for years.

There are a lot of people on HN who love and support crypto but the arguments are exhausting and you get nothing but downvotes. All of my friends and family I convinced to buy and hold have been texting me how I changed their lives. It’s just so sad to see what this website did to engineers who normally have open minds but were convinced to hate crypto.

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