Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 910 posts

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#491

Post by GoblinSlayer »

blackbrokkoli wrote: post #258
krisdol wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full disclosure: I own about $11 worth of bitcoin if I round up a bit, so this might be biased. The most convincing "point" of bitcoin I've heard is to accomodate transfer of large sums of money across borders, quickly, with minimal transaction costs and oversight. Everyone here can afford the fee to transact 8 billion dollars worth of bitcoin. And settlement happens in seconds to a couple minutes. That's appealing t…

Yeah, sure settlement in Bitcoin happens within a few minutes. Getting that converted into usable money is a whole other story, no? I can basically think of two scenario types when you are in need of international, spontaneous money transfer: a) "I just got carjacked in Sierra Leone and need some money for an hotel and a flight home" b) "I have some weird novel business and I would like to pay my contractors in East…

Life outside of USA is basically cryptozoology: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-crypto-currencies-africa-...

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#492

Post by Jtsummers »

jkepler wrote: post #485
Jtsummers wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, since USD is inflationary, we expect it to become less valuable (real value) over time which encourages investment and spending today. Since we don't have crazy levels of inflation this doesn't fully discourage savings (with a 10% or higher inflation rate you have very little incentive to save, with 1 or 2% your savings lose value over time, but slow enough that it's still worth saving). Economies are improved a…

2% inflation over 30 years destroys over half the purchasing power of the saved money. So no, moderate inflation doesn't encourage saving. It encourages the unbridled consumerism that has created environmental catastrophe. Bitcoin, as a deflationary asset, encourages lower time preference, which encourages saving and real investing (generating real world value rather than paper gains), resulting in less consumerism a…

I said it doesn't fully discourage it. I did not say that it encourages saving. Read my post.

BTC does not encourage real investing, only hoarding. The hoarded BTC is not used in any productive investment or way because no one will loan it when it gains much more value than most businesses can produce merely by existing. When it can increase in apparent value by 100% in just a few weeks, there is no reason to invest your BTC because no business (or very few, and none sustainably) will have similar returns.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#493

Post by whitepaint »

lifty wrote: post #451
whitepaint wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 most likely possibilities imo: some huge vulnerability that has not yet been found, and something much much better coming out.

Sure, vulnerabilities and bugs can happen. They get fixed and people move on. Something much better coming out is not an existential risk for the cryptocurrency/blockchain space, quite the opposite, it's very positive.

Is it positive for Bitcoin if Ethereum proves that POS is way way superior? And if people actually start using Ether as a currency in shops, start using it with many dapps etc.? What if something much better than that comes up? Are you absolutely sure Bitcoin survives in the long-term?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#494

Post by dkersten »

deevolution wrote: post #477
systemvoltage wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

How can you possibly back up the claim that the USD is stable? My grandparents were able to buy several acres of land and build a house for 80k in the 1970s. Doing the same today costs 500k+!!! It's completely outrageous. Ths USD is far from stable and anyone who thinks so is either insanely privileged or ignorant!

Because the cappuccino will continue to cost them $4 tomorrow, next week and next month. Sure, its value changes and a cappuccino may even cost a different amount sometime in the future, but its easy to know the value of the money you have because the exchange rate between dollars and items in the shop doesn't change so much.

Contrast that with bitcoin, where the value often changes by many, many cappuccino's in a single day.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#495

Post by globular-toast »

strombofulous wrote: post #349
globular-toast wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, by the way, the merchant incorporates that cost into their price.

Something I've always been confused about, maybe you know the answer - Don't merchant's already charge the amount that causes (number of units sold) * (profit per unit) to be as high as possible? If visa suddenly dropped the transaction fee to 1%, I don't think stores would pass the 2% savings on to the customer

If free markets existed, that is how they would operate. Sellers would be small, independent, have perfect knowledge of the market and would always seek to maximise profit.

But free markets don't exist. There are many reasons why merchants might not always aim to maximise profit. They might instead seek the security of a loyal customer base, for example. In many markets, sellers ruthlessly compete on price, often at the cost of short term profit. Supermarkets in the UK is a good example. If transaction costs for supermarkets were reduced that would absolutely be seen by the customers.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#496

Post by PragmaticPulp »

lifty wrote: post #404
whitepaint wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read many good arguments against cryptos here. If 80% drop happens within the next month, nobody really would be surprised. Cryptos can still easily fail. I hold Ether (just it) because what they are doing is really extraordinary but gazillion things might go wrong with it, Bitcoin, and others.

Do you think the code will fail, the consensus model, or there are no uses cases? If you have concerns about this I would love to hear them. But if you are only afraid that the price can fall 90%, then who cares? Let it fall, there is too much hype anyway, to the point it has created great division between coiners and no-coiners. For example, the 2001 stock market crash, it cleared out projects based on fluff and the…

Ask yourself: What drives the price increase? Are people buying because they expect to use Bitcoin? Or because they expect the price will go up?

If it's the latter, it's a self-reinforcing cycle: The price goes up because people buy. People buy because the price goes up.

So what happens when the popular narrative switches? What happens when the price goes down for years at a time and people watch their money dwindle? Will people wait around for the price to skyrocket again? Or will they see their friends getting rich in altcoins or meme stocks or NFT trading cards and sell their BTC to get in on the next hot trend?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#497

Post by chizhik-pyzhik »

supersour wrote: post #461
Sargos wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacker News is still trying to grasp Bitcoin so I feel like Ethereum is going to take another few years to even begin productive discussions.

I think the more productive sentiment would be to try and have a more in depth discussion about Ethereum instead of attacking HN ad-hominem. So, as someone who doesn't know much about crypto aside from "it's bitcoin!", please tell me, what advantage do stablecoins/Ethereum provide that fixes the problems presented with bitcoin? I actually want to learn more. I would be interested to know about the volatility specific…

Stablecoins are a way to use the Ethereum network (or another blockchain) to send value that is pegged to the US dollar. There are a lot of stablecoins now (USDC, DAI, USDT) and they have various mechanisms for staying pegged to the dollar, some more effective than others.

Using stablecoins allows you the advantages of the Ethereum network (interoperability with ethereum loan platforms and other smart contracts) without having to be concerned with the price of ETH.

Stablecoins have the same level of security as their underlying blockchain. To double-spend ethereum-based stablecoins you need to 51% attack Ethereum itself.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#498

Post by Jtsummers »

nybble41 wrote: post #444
Jtsummers wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, since USD is inflationary, we expect it to become less valuable (real value) over time which encourages investment and spending today. Since we don't have crazy levels of inflation this doesn't fully discourage savings (with a 10% or higher inflation rate you have very little incentive to save, with 1 or 2% your savings lose value over time, but slow enough that it's still worth saving). Economies are improved a…

> Economies are improved and sustained by moving money, not by stagnant money. A common misconception. The health of an economy lies in the goods that are exchanged; money is merely a placeholder. They are improved by producing more goods than are consumed, which creates room for investment in capital goods (tools for enhancing the productivity of goods and labor) and the research and development of improved technolo…

It would've been better if I'd been more deliberate with that sentence, you're right. "money" was my shorthand for "things moving in the economy, including financial measures like cash and the exchange of goods and services". Just measuring the movement of money means that two people could create an apparently vibrant economy by exchanging $1,000 between them every minute of every day, but such an economy would be absolutely bereft of any real value or health.

"Stagnant" was my way of referring to hoarded money that's not actually invested in anything. Yes, it's equivalent to removing it from the economy and it reduces the nominal price of goods and services, which also means it reduces the nominal wages (over time). Which means old money is given a much stronger benefit in the economy when they finally spend it, and new money (including new entrants like an 18 year old getting their first full time job) are severely penalized not due to any actual lack of skill or ability, but due to their entering the economy 100 years too late.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#499

Post by PragmaticPulp »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #242
the_local_host wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The original idea of Bitcoin was to have a currency that wasn’t in government control I've never understood this. With an immutable ledger of all transactions, governments simply have to make it illegal to transact anonymously (or pseudonymously), watch the blockchain, and investigate any un-attributed transactions. It would actually enhance governments' surveillance capabilities against anyone not willing to run t…

governments simply have to make it illegal to transact anonymously Making something illegal does not give a government control over it. Many websites/apps are illegal in many countries. Yet governments have near zero control over their citizens using those products. VPN.

VPN hides activity.

Bitcoin makes it public record.

Regulating Bitcoin transactions is extremely easy due to the public ledger. You simply make it illegal for exchanges to transact with coins that are known to be stolen or otherwise flagged. Then all exchanges are forced to blacklist coins on that list, as well as descendant transactions from those blacklisted coins.

Now there are two classes of addresses on the blockchain: Those that are clean, and those that are tainted with illegal activity transactions. The tainted coins are worth less than untainted coins as fewer and fewer exchanges will touch them.

Ironically, Bitcoin speculators will support this move because it reduces the supply of Bitcoin. Reducing the supply of Bitcoin increases the relative value of their clean Bitcoin.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#500

Post by anm89 »

arcticbull wrote: post #370
anm89 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me a currency that has the exact same inflation figures every month for a single year and I'll send you a bitcoin. Or alternately, just view a currency index like the DXY to see very closely that nothing comes close to this. Here is what some real inflation data looks like (as viewedin terms of CPI). It can't even decide if it wants to stay positive or negative on a monthly basis. https://tradingeconomics.com/eu…

> Show me a currency that has the exact same inflation figures every month for a single year and I'll send you a bitcoin. That's strictly not a goal. The goal is a long-to-medium term target average. > Or alternately, just view a currency index like the DXY to see very closely that nothing comes close to this. DXY has little to do with domestic spending power, only the relative strength of one currency compared to a…

You still haven't provided any data of any country showing consistent inflation. Hell, do it over a 10 year period annually. You still can't. No bitcoin for you and the wetlands.
Post reply on HN