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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#431

Post by f00zz »

cma wrote: post #285
vbezhenar wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your view must be skewed by privilege of having stable currency. Currency of my country lost 250% of its value over last 7 years. It's not bitcoin-level volatile, but close to it. Thankfully I have an option to use USD to hoard money, but that option is not something that's given, in many countries you just can't exchange for fair price. I agree that for someone living in US or EU there's no much point using BTC.

How did it lose more than 100% of its value?

They probably mean that USD is up 250% against their currency.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#432

Post by BitwiseFool »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #293
BitwiseFool wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While true, I know of many small businesses that give cash discounts because the credit card fees ruin the profit margin on small purchases. Sometimes they even lose money on transactions. For instance if you buy a scone for a $1.05, the credit card fees alone might come out to 38¢ for the merchant. This is why you often see "minimum card purchase $5" at coffee shops and small businesses.

Yes, the fee is usually fixed cost plus percentage, which makes small transactions very expensive. The small transaction problem is vastly worse with Bitcoin, though. The catch is that the transaction fee is paid by the buyer, so that $1.05 scone costs the consumer $8.05. $1.05 goes to the consumer $8 transaction fee goes to the miner Some fraction (eventually most) of that $8 transaction fee goes to the energy compa…

Absolutely true. I'm not advocating for crypto to replace credit card transactions, as that would be insanely impractical and wasteful. I wanted to draw some attention to how badly merchants are treated when they accept card payments.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#433

Post by PragmaticPulp »

yarcob wrote: post #403
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

> Exchange fees are a great way to charge consumers for spending their own money in 2021, when normal credit cards actually pay people 1-2% to use them Credit card companies in the US are a special kind of evil. They charge huge fees, force vendors not to pass the fees on to customers, and then pretend to be the consumer's best friend by returning a bit of the fees to them. They insert themselves between buyer and se…

Paying with Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency requires the customer to pay the transaction fees.

Regardless of what you think about credit card companies, which payment method do you think the average consumer would choose?

1) Pay by credit card, get 2% cash back, reserve option to reverse charges if vendor fails to deliver, don't lose all of your money if you lose your credit card.

2) Pay by Bitcoin, pay $8 transaction fee, wait 10-30 minutes for transaction to be confirmed, resubmit if transaction fee was too low, no recourse if vendor runs away with your money, lose all of your money if you forget your password.

Realistically, any crypto-as-payment service will either charge the merchants large fees (to cover risk, volatility, exchange, transaction costs) and/or collect profit on the exchange rate.

There's no free lunch, but the lunch is definitely not cheaper on the Bitcoin side for average transactions.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#434

Post by kolinko »

systemvoltage wrote: post #84
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

The value is in ease of use for some cases.

Or, in other words, what’s the point of having a stable currency if you can’t use it in smart contracts?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#435

Post by PragmaticPulp »

bmurphy1976 wrote: post #270
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

Four or five years ago I mined Dogecoin on a lark using a laptop for a month. I converted that to BTC at some point and it's worth more than I ever anticipated. It won't change my life but I could have some fun with the money. I'm not inclined to transfer it to USD, but I'd happily spend some of it were it easy to do so. Maybe buy some stocks, upgrade my PC, or get a PS5 and some games? Sure, why not! I'm only sittin…

> I'm not inclined to transfer it to USD, but I'd happily spend some of it were it easy to do so.

Spending it is effectively the same thing as converting it to USD.

Why are you hesitant to convert it to USD to buy something, yet you'd be happy to have a 3rd party service handle the BTC-USD conversion in the background and collect their profit on the exchange?

There's no free lunch. Mastercard isn't doing this out of a desire to offer free services to the people. They're collecting profit by offering worse exchange rates than you can get on an exchange by yourself. Same story for PayPal and other providers.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#436

Post by maceurt »

nemo44x wrote: post #154
maceurt wrote: post #123

I am not big on cryptocurrency. Look how the price of these "currencies" fluctuate like crazy, because people buy and treat it like an investment. What is the actual current practical utility of cryptocurrency except for buying/selling illegal things online? People are so horny to get in on the next computer/iphone/etc that they forget that new ideas can fail.

A store of value protected from (and even a beneficiary of) government mismanagement, central bank mismanagement, corporate mismanagement, etc. Because we are forced to generally keep our wealth in things susceptible to political influence it’s nice to have a place to store value away from that. My homes value can be wrecked by a variety of government or central bank policies. Same with my equities and bonds. So havi…

> A store of value protected from (and even a beneficiary of) government mismanagement, central bank mismanagement, corporate mismanagement, etc.

Precious Gold/ Silver is way more adverse to risk than crypto and actually exists as a physical good.

> My homes value can be wrecked by a variety of government or central bank policies.

Crypto can be affected by those things also. I see the utility in certain aspects, but I don't understand the gold rush when there a lot better decentralized currencies.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#437

Post by whitepaint »

lifty wrote: post #404
whitepaint wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read many good arguments against cryptos here. If 80% drop happens within the next month, nobody really would be surprised. Cryptos can still easily fail. I hold Ether (just it) because what they are doing is really extraordinary but gazillion things might go wrong with it, Bitcoin, and others.

Do you think the code will fail, the consensus model, or there are no uses cases? If you have concerns about this I would love to hear them. But if you are only afraid that the price can fall 90%, then who cares? Let it fall, there is too much hype anyway, to the point it has created great division between coiners and no-coiners. For example, the 2001 stock market crash, it cleared out projects based on fluff and the…

2 most likely possibilities imo: some huge vulnerability that has not yet been found, and something much much better coming out.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#438

Post by rantwasp »

Kiro wrote: post #210

The public thinks Bitcoin is the currency of hackers. Decentralized, technical, innovative and challenging the whole financial backbone. In reality... We have threads like this. Never seen so much hate for Bitcoin as on HN.

“People fear what they don't understand and hate what they can't conquer.”

Bitcoin itself may end up being worthless or being a fortune. The block-chain technology is the revolutionary part that is here to stay and will only continue to grow in the future.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#439

Post by rawtxapp »

oillio wrote: post #424
rawtxapp wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very similar to what I'm currently doing, just borrowing against my Bitcoin holdings using MakerDAO, I have good liquidity on a day to day basis and my Bitcoin is still appreciating.

Is this a long term solution? Or do you plan on selling Bitcoin to pay back the loan when you think we are near the top?

As long as there's no bugs in the smart contract, I don't plan on ever paying down that debt, since I expect the value of BTC to rise much faster than the value of my debt. My liquidation price is very low and if it were to reach that, it would mean a catastrophe anyways.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#440

Post by BenoitEssiambre »

jkepler wrote: post #419
BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this can go on until GDP is forced to shrink because people and businesses are all hoarding crypto tokens instead of participating in the real economy. This happened almost a hundred years ago when the world got too excited about gold. It' scary to think it could happen again with cryptocoins.

What historical period are you referring to? If you look at the first 200 years of US history, for example, there was plenty of real world growth on spite of slow price deflation. Gold and silver jointly backed the banking system until the Federal reserve started the current USD system in 1913. In much of the rest of the world, the 40 years prior to WW1 were largely characterized by economic growth, while on an inter…

The pre ww1 world was probably too different from today to draw lessons applicable today and in any case there were recessions every few years back then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_recessions_in_the_Unit...

Gold tied assets hoarding caused the great depression.

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