MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies • Hacker News Board

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#281

Post by tshaddox » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

the_local_host wrote: post #133

PretzelPirate wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original idea of Bitcoin was to have a currency that wasn’t in government control - not to keep the government and big banks away from it. The current world of cryptocurrency gives you a choice of trusting big banks or not, and having the same economic opportunities regardless of the level of trust you are comfortable with.

> The original idea of Bitcoin was to have a currency that wasn’t in government control I've never understood this. With an immutable ledger of all transactions, governments simply have to make it illegal to transact anonymously (or pseudonymously), watch the blockchain, and investigate any un-attributed transactions. It would actually enhance governments' surveillance capabilities against anyone not willing to run t…

Copyright infringement was also always illegal (and still is). That doesn't mean that Napster, BitTorrent, etc. didn't massively increase access to music outside the control of the copyright system.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#282

Post by warkdarrior » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #128

globular-toast wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how all currency trading works. Why do you think this is unique to Bitcoin or crypto? More than 95% of "money" in circulation was created in the private banking sector. That's the closest thing to printing money because that's actually what it is. Paypal is just taking a cut for providing a service. Don't like it? Don't use it.

You can show up at a bank and demand your balance in central bank money aka cash. The equivalent for Bitcoin would be that Paypal has to send your balance to you on the blockchain. But they do not do that. They will pay you in dollars. How much dollars? However much they like.

We'll see whether consumers like their offering.

[checking...] It looks like they are doing alright: https://www.coindesk.com/paypal-2020-results-outstanding-fin...

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#283

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #207

arcticbull wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet you and everyone else are unable to produce any meaningful sources or analysis that justify your beliefs. [citation needed] and we can talk about it. Healthcare is a social policy matter, not monetary policy, and nothing to do with increase in the money supply. You take that up with your representatives not the Fed. Housing is a function of city council zoning policy. You take that up with your city council n…

> the increase in pricing has nothing to do with monetary policy. This is incorrect.

[deleted]

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#284

Post by arcticbull » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #262

arcticbull wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation adjusted $/sqft on average across the US housing costs exactly the same as it did in the 1970s. With interest rates 1/5 of what they were back then, each square foot is actually much more affordable. I admit I misspoke, because of course, monetary policy controls interest rates, but I maintain that a change in affordability is not dominated by inflation but rather other social policies. Houses are twice is…

> Inflation adjusted $/sqft on average across the US housing costs exactly the same as it did in the 1970s. > Inflation adjusted Inflation is a result of monetary policy. So when you’ve adjusted the price for the monetary policy, you see that 50 years of capital accumulation and efficiency has been soaked up by monetary policy. > I admit I misspoke, because of course, monetary policy controls interest rates, but I ma…

> "I’m not sure how to proceed. The notion that one could print money and have each currency unit correspond to the same amount of physical goods is prima facie false."

No, it's not, you're looking at half the equation. Value of money is a function of both supply and velocity. If velocity drops but supply increases commensurately, each unit of currency corresponds to the same amount of physical goods. [1]

This should be dead obvious to you, as the money supply doubled last year but the price of Apples went up 2%. Not 100%. Same with the entire CPI basket. Housing actually got cheaper. Rent went down a ton.

> Inflation is a result of monetary policy. So when you’ve adjusted the price for the monetary policy, you see that 50 years of capital accumulation and efficiency has been soaked up by monetary policy.

We are talking in constant dollars that have a 0% notional rate of inflation. That's what inflation-adjusted means in this context.

What do you mean by "50 years of capital accumulation"? People don't accumulate or hold dollars for exactly this reason. They accumulate and hold assets and value, whose performance matches or exceeds inflation.

> Things are supposed to get cheaper as capital accumulates. Social policies undoubtedly have an effect. So does increasing the money supply. An increase in the number of currency units necessarily causes each unit to be worth less, ceteris paribus.

I'm not sure what that means. Things aren't supposed to get anything as capital accumulates.

An increase in number of currency units may or may not cause each unit to be worth less, as velocity is the missing half of the equation. With that in mind the goal is each unit to be worth 2% less each year, to incentivize higher velocity of money and investment.

It's a straw man to say that your buying power drops 2% each year as a result of inflation. You're only penalized for inflation for the period between you receiving the dollars and using them to purchase assets whose performance exceeds inflation.

[1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/v/velocity.asp

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#285

Post by cma » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

vbezhenar wrote: post #255

systemvoltage wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

Your view must be skewed by privilege of having stable currency. Currency of my country lost 250% of its value over last 7 years. It's not bitcoin-level volatile, but close to it. Thankfully I have an option to use USD to hoard money, but that option is not something that's given, in many countries you just can't exchange for fair price. I agree that for someone living in US or EU there's no much point using BTC.

How did it lose more than 100% of its value?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#286

Post by koonsolo » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

bondarchuk wrote: post #275

koonsolo wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quote from Elon Musk: "If PayPal had executed the plan that I wanted to execute on, I think it would probably be the most valuable company in the world".

..what was the plan?

If I remember correctly, replace money, or at least all banks.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#287

Post by exdsq » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 5:57 PM UTC

joosters wrote: post #107

exdsq wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I regularly invoice internationally. I can get a crypto payment through with a small transaction fee (a few cent for $20k) which clears in ~5 minutes, or I can get a payment that takes several days to clear with a larger fee. Crypto works perfectly for me!

Or you could use any of the far cheaper options for international payments (Transferwise, etc)... why do cryptocurrency enthusiasts think that all international payments need to be done via Western Union?

That's a $7.50 charge, this is cheaper. I do however use those methods if the client won't pay in crypto.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#288

Post by BenoitEssiambre » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

raiyu wrote: post #193

olalonde wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is used as a speculative investment today only because it is so underpriced. Once its value stabilizes, its use in day to day transactions will grow. > Should also note that MasterCard crypto transactions almost certainly won’t be settled on the blockchain. And neither are USD transactions. In fact, USD doesn't even have a blockchain! The great thing with Bitcoin is once you want to cash out your Bitcoin, you…

Bitcoin is used as a speculative instrument because by definition it is deflationary. Which means it is more expensive to buy something with it today, then tomorrow. Just look at Chamath's tweet about how he bought a property for Bitcoin in 2014 for $1.4MM but today that same amount of bitcoin would be $100MM+ https://markets.businessinsider.com/currencies/news/chamath-... This creates an environment there is never a…

And this can go on until GDP is forced to shrink because people and businesses are all hoarding crypto tokens instead of participating in the real economy. This happened almost a hundred years ago when the world got too excited about gold. It' scary to think it could happen again with cryptocoins.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#289

Post by PragmaticPulp » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

maxkwallace wrote: post #75

To everyone saying "my credit card pays me 2% to use it", no, your credit card charges the merchant 2.3%+ to use it, that gets bundled into the price, and they give you 2% of that as a kickback.

> "my credit card pays me 2% to use it", no, your credit card charges the merchant 2.3%+ to use it,

Consumers do not care about anything other than the net price they pay.

Stores that take Bitcoin payments flip this around, passing the transaction cost to consumers.

If I'm ordering a $50 thing online and the store takes Bitcoin, I have two options:

1) Pay with my credit card, for a net cost of $49 to me and a guarantee that if they don't deliver I can reverse the charges.

2) Pay with Bitcoin, for a net cost of $58 with the current $8 transaction fee, and zero recourse if the vendor fails to deliver.

$49 and money-back guarantee versus $58 and zero recourse. Why would anyone choose the latter?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#290

Post by whimsicalism » Thu, Feb 11, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

koonsolo wrote: post #228

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #4

The game Paypal currently plays with Crypto is the closest thing to printing money I have ever seen: Their users can "buy and sell Bitcoin" and pay "no fees". How does Paypal make money? "From the spread". The difference between bid and ask. And who sets the spread? Drumroll ... Paypal! Since you cannot transfer your bitcoins out, when you sell your bitcoins, Paypal pays you whatever they like. So far, Paypal only of…

Quote from Elon Musk: "If PayPal had executed the plan that I wanted to execute on, I think it would probably be the most valuable company in the world".

Paypal could have become like Alipay/Wechat Pay in China, but it didn't.