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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#201

Post by 3np »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #4

The game Paypal currently plays with Crypto is the closest thing to printing money I have ever seen: Their users can "buy and sell Bitcoin" and pay "no fees". How does Paypal make money? "From the spread". The difference between bid and ask. And who sets the spread? Drumroll ... Paypal! Since you cannot transfer your bitcoins out, when you sell your bitcoins, Paypal pays you whatever they like. So far, Paypal only of…

Revolut is pulling the exact same bullshit to a T.

If it weren't such an obvious move I'd say PayPal carbon-copied it from Revolut. Can't wait for the competition to put pressure on them.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#202

Post by PKop »

PretzelPirate wrote: post #6
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

I’m in the minority in that I’d like to be able to spend my cryptocurrency in a way that: 1. The card handles also selling some off for taxes every transaction and put that in an interest-accruing account. 2. The card tracked my capital gains for each transaction for easy reporting on taxes. 3. The card provider will help manage fees - I’d rather bulk deposit funds to a layer2 and have fee-less payments over having t…

How is this not solved by simply selling portions into fiat that cover expected spending needs, i.e. budgeting, and then transferring to bank account which is tied to your current credit card?

"Spending" and "transacting" is a solved problem, namely fiat and credit.

Why do crypto-assets, specifically Bitcoin, need to solve this problem?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#203

Post by DSingularity »

arcticbull wrote: post #137
janoside wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point, you ask... Here is Ross Stevens, CEO of Stone Ridge Asset Management, describing "the point" for an hour: https://www.microstrategy.com/en/bitcoin/videos/bitcoin-macr... It sounds like you've made up your mind about Bitcoin, but I believe you've missed the big picture. The above video, if you watch it with an open mind, will help you to glimpse it. Hint: it's not about cappuccino, it's about living…

You haven't shared "the point" just a link to MicroStrategy, a failed software company whose CEO had to pay an $11 million dollar SEC settlement decades ago for cooking the books, making a desperate Hail Mary play buying near the top of a speculative mania in a bid to gain relevancy. MSTR is the new "Long Island Iced Tea" -> "Long Blockchain Inc" rebrand [1] Humorously enough, the same is roughly true of Tesla, a car…

You know, your point about Tesla has given me lots of conflict. What did I miss? Obviously this question came when I sold off my TSLA stock at 500$ thinking — it was overvalued — and then watching it rise to the equivalent of 4,000$. I reached the conclusion it’s no longer solely about cash flow and debt ratios and market cap and addressable market and whatever other traditional metrics we previously used to value companies. The emotional component has become more important.

People are buying TSLA because they want to do something about climate change. Or maybe cause they worship Musk. This is probably holding for other companies in other industries. Bitcoin is definitely not only being bought because it’s digital gold. It’s being bought because people are emotionally attached to resetting the system. A bunch of middle fingers to the dollar rich (Bitcoin poor) by a bunch dollar poor (Bitcoin rich). This is why people are buying BTC.

Whether it is TSLA or BTC — value itself is being disrupted.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#204

Post by centimeter »

ardy42 wrote: post #144
kungito wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But did you ever wonder where the stability of USD comes from? It all comes down to how big the transaction volume of your currency is. Things like "Petrodollar" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrodollar_recycling#Petrodol... increase the volume and provide additional stability. As "market cap" of bitcoin increases, so does the stability. All things considered, bitcoin still is very bad because of the transaction thr…

> But did you ever wonder where the stability of USD comes from? It all comes down to how big the transaction volume of your currency is. I don't think it's that simple. Transaction volume doesn't just appear from nowhere. IMHO, the stability of the US dollar mainly comes from the geopolitical & economic position of the US coupled with trust that its government won't totally mismanage it. Bitcoin has neither of those…

> Transaction volume doesn't just appear from nowhere.

Indeed, it takes time to bootstrap a currency. That’s why it’s absurd to expect Bitcoin to be stable when it’s less than 10% the market cap of any other significant reserve asset, and may plausibly keep increasing its dominance in the reserve asset market.

> Bitcoin has neither of those things and never will.

I disagree - I trust much more strongly that Bitcoin will not be mismanaged than the USD, because bitcoin is governed by very simple and utile rules that are practically impossible to change, whereas the USD can be and has been inflated substantially.

I don’t think your first point (the economic position of the US) is as important as you think, especially as Bitcoin comes to be the reserve asset of a larger and larger set of productive economic actors.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#205

Post by u678u »

krisdol wrote: post #175
systemvoltage wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of an unstable, volatile, frantically manipulated currency that is susceptible to social media pump and dump schemes (Elon + Doge)? Currency and its exchange rate needs to be relatively stable for the world to put trust into it. Saying that BTC is stable, but the rest of the world's fiat currency is fluctuating makes no sense. US dollar provides stability and security, I feel confident that a cappucc…

Full disclosure: I own about $11 worth of bitcoin if I round up a bit, so this might be biased. The most convincing "point" of bitcoin I've heard is to accomodate transfer of large sums of money across borders, quickly, with minimal transaction costs and oversight. Everyone here can afford the fee to transact 8 billion dollars worth of bitcoin. And settlement happens in seconds to a couple minutes. That's appealing t…

No if you have millions or billions basic wire transfers are instant and cheap. It is more interesting for if you have a few hundred or a few thousand dollars, where a $10-$50 fee is significant. Or you want to bypass regulations or bureaucracy eg send money to a friend in Argentina or Lebanon which have currency controls.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#206

Post by globular-toast »

ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #128
globular-toast wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how all currency trading works. Why do you think this is unique to Bitcoin or crypto? More than 95% of "money" in circulation was created in the private banking sector. That's the closest thing to printing money because that's actually what it is. Paypal is just taking a cut for providing a service. Don't like it? Don't use it.

You can show up at a bank and demand your balance in central bank money aka cash. The equivalent for Bitcoin would be that Paypal has to send your balance to you on the blockchain. But they do not do that. They will pay you in dollars. How much dollars? However much they like.

> You can show up at a bank and demand your balance in central bank money aka cash.

Of course you can. Whether you get it or not is another matter. Have you ever tried it? Do you know anyone who has tried it? Sure, for trivial amounts you can do it. But do you think you can just waltz into your bank and walk out with $50,000 in cash? Good luck.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#207

Post by chordalkeyboard »

arcticbull wrote: post #196
danhak wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Housing, healthcare, education and childcare costs matter. I don’t believe CPI is accurately capturing the skyrocketing costs of these things, which are the most significant expenses for most households.

And yet you and everyone else are unable to produce any meaningful sources or analysis that justify your beliefs. [citation needed] and we can talk about it. Healthcare is a social policy matter, not monetary policy, and nothing to do with increase in the money supply. You take that up with your representatives not the Fed. Housing is a function of city council zoning policy. You take that up with your city council n…

> the increase in pricing has nothing to do with monetary policy.

This is incorrect.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#208

Post by arcticbull »

DSingularity wrote: post #203
arcticbull wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't shared "the point" just a link to MicroStrategy, a failed software company whose CEO had to pay an $11 million dollar SEC settlement decades ago for cooking the books, making a desperate Hail Mary play buying near the top of a speculative mania in a bid to gain relevancy. MSTR is the new "Long Island Iced Tea" -> "Long Blockchain Inc" rebrand [1] Humorously enough, the same is roughly true of Tesla, a car…

You know, your point about Tesla has given me lots of conflict. What did I miss? Obviously this question came when I sold off my TSLA stock at 500$ thinking — it was overvalued — and then watching it rise to the equivalent of 4,000$. I reached the conclusion it’s no longer solely about cash flow and debt ratios and market cap and addressable market and whatever other traditional metrics we previously used to value co…

> People are buying TSLA because they want to do something about climate change.

I hope given Tesla's new affinity with Bitcoin that what they want to do is "make it worse" lol. Tesla is literally selling its green energy credits to dirty car companies, then throwing it at Chinese coal miners.

The market goes through particularly bubblicious periods of pricing mania from time to time. It's happening now, it's happened before, and it'll happen again. I wouldn't read too much into it.

  "..in the short run, the market is like a voting machine--tallying up which firms are popular and unpopular. But in the long run, the market is like a weighing machine--assessing the substance of a company." - Benjamin Graham
Prior to the pandemic stimmy money, poor people weren't investing and middle class folks were. When the pandemic hit, poor people lost their jobs, middle class folks kept them. Both poor and middle class folks received stimmy money. The middle class folks invested it.

The whole run up there were trillions on the side-line, and folks who remember 2008 weren't about to let another V shaped recovery pass them by. They plowed money into whatever they could. Literally everything exploded in value last year. My personal trading account is up almost 14X on a 1-year basis today.

It's nothing to do with fundamentals, just a bubble. It'll revert in time, and then it'll grow again.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#209

Post by 3np »

warkdarrior wrote: post #199
lawn wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We shouldn't forget that there are other cryptos that don't have these ridiculous fees. Also, your credit card pays you 2% because they extract a larger fee from the merchant, who will raise prices to cover that expense. So you're not really saving money.

Will the merchants give me a 2+% discount and cover the BTC transaction fee if I pay in Bitcoin?

One of the largest consumer electronics merchant in Japan does give you a discount if you pay with bitcoin, coincidentally.
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