Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

colorfulwolf.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–158 of 158 posts

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#151

Post by weavejester »

cheez wrote: post #144
weavejester wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how you expect that to work. How would expiring bitcoins increase circulation?

"You will have 10 BTC expire next month" So you spend it. Also, once the BTC expire, they don't disappear. They are made available for mining. This is possible because the block chain has full history.

In order to spend bitcoins, you need someone willing to exchange them for goods or services. Why would anyone do that if the bitcoins they received were going to expire?

For instance, let's say I wait until the literally last minute to spend my expiring bitcoins. I want to exchange my almost-expiring 10 BTC for $100. Would you accept this offer, knowing that those 10 BTC will vanish shortly after you accept them?

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#152

Post by regularfry »

daviddoran wrote: post #125
api wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is not quantum-hard. When quantum computing reaches a certain threshold, bitcoin will lose its uniqueness and collapse. There are post-quantum algorithms that are computable on ordinary computers, but they're still under research and they'd make Bitcoin's data set considerably larger.

Correct, however the Bitcoin website has an answer for that: upgrade. The cryptographic methods are not fixed for all time, we can switch to other methods (which are quantum-resistant) when it becomes necessary.

Assuming they are available and deployable at that time. It's like arguing against climate change mitigation because a technological solution will present itself: you might be right, but why gamble?

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#153

Post by iwwr »

caf wrote: post #140
iwwr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just imagined that the bitcoin world post-mining (after or near the 21M BTC is reached) would just consist of the transactional interfaces and not need the specialized GPU miners.

Unfortunately, that's not how it works. The "miners" are really "transaction settlers". It's the longest block chain that represents the globally consistent view of which transactions have settled.

OK, that was an aspect I was unfamiliar with. So after the mining phase ends, transactions become zero-sum BTC games, where the biggest 'miners' accrue their proportional share of the total fees of transactions validated.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#154

Post by cheez »

weavejester wrote: post #151
cheez wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You will have 10 BTC expire next month" So you spend it. Also, once the BTC expire, they don't disappear. They are made available for mining. This is possible because the block chain has full history.

In order to spend bitcoins, you need someone willing to exchange them for goods or services. Why would anyone do that if the bitcoins they received were going to expire? For instance, let's say I wait until the literally last minute to spend my expiring bitcoins. I want to exchange my almost-expiring 10 BTC for $100. Would you accept this offer, knowing that those 10 BTC will vanish shortly after you accept them?

I was not clear. They only expire if YOU don't spend them.

Once you exchange your 10 BTC, the expiry date is reset.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#155

Post by weavejester »

cheez wrote: post #154
weavejester wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to spend bitcoins, you need someone willing to exchange them for goods or services. Why would anyone do that if the bitcoins they received were going to expire? For instance, let's say I wait until the literally last minute to spend my expiring bitcoins. I want to exchange my almost-expiring 10 BTC for $100. Would you accept this offer, knowing that those 10 BTC will vanish shortly after you accept them?

I was not clear. They only expire if YOU don't spend them. Once you exchange your 10 BTC, the expiry date is reset.

So what's stopping me from creating multiple accounts and swapping bitcoins between them to prevent them from ever expiring?

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#156

Post by cheez »

weavejester wrote: post #155
cheez wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was not clear. They only expire if YOU don't spend them. Once you exchange your 10 BTC, the expiry date is reset.

So what's stopping me from creating multiple accounts and swapping bitcoins between them to prevent them from ever expiring?

Nothing. I didn't say I've thought it out completely :)

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#157

Post by pash »

weavejester wrote: post #150
pash wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question was how to allow clients to form a new consensus. I did not suggest using Bitcoins to verify transactions; rather, I suggested using verified transactions to verify the will of the Bitcoin community.

Forming a consensus isn't the problem; the problem is enforcing honest application of the new rules. Assuming the majority of people in the network are honest, you need some way of determining what that majority decides, within the network itself .

You have completely missed the point. Because the network can observe transactions, using a Bitcoin account as a ballot box, and Bitcoins as the votes, is a transparent, verified mechanism for determining the community's aggregate will.

This approach negates the incentive to create sham clients under a one-client-one-vote system; it has the same benefit over IP-based voting systems, or what have you. Voting with Bitcoins means that that every participant in the economy has a voting power equal to his account balance (if the Bitcoins are returned after voting) or the number of Bitcoins he both has and is willing to give up to affect the vote's outcome (if they are not returned). So those who are more invested in the Bitcoin economy would have more (or potentially more) power to determine the rules of the economy.

Re: Resources are being utterly and completely wasted on mining bitcoins

#158

Post by weavejester »

pash wrote: post #157
weavejester wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forming a consensus isn't the problem; the problem is enforcing honest application of the new rules. Assuming the majority of people in the network are honest, you need some way of determining what that majority decides, within the network itself .

You have completely missed the point. Because the network can observe transactions, using a Bitcoin account as a ballot box, and Bitcoins as the votes, is a transparent, verified mechanism for determining the community's aggregate will. This approach negates the incentive to create sham clients under a one-client-one-vote system; it has the same benefit over IP-based voting systems, or what have you. Voting with Bitc…

I'm not saying that you can't use bitcoins as votes. You could; but any change to the rules needs to be also be enforced within the network, right? So you need some mechanism for figuring out the majority within the network, which obviously can't be done with bitcoins.
Post reply on HN