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Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

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Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#491

Post by ggrrhh_ta »

onyb wrote: post #404
baxtr wrote: post #265

Ok, I have to admit that I am one of those people who knew about BTC very, very early but never bought any. Now, of course I should have mined at least 100 back in the days, but anyways. The reason I have never mined nor bought into it is that I still, to this day struggle to come up with a real reason to do so. Am I getting too old? Do I not see the "huge potential" what it may become? Don't I want to get freaking r…

Once you understand Bitcoin, there's no way why you'd go back to the legacy system. It's not Bitcoiners getting freaking rich; it's them adopting a superior store of value that is being selected as the winner in a free market. Most people are perfectly happy entrusting their (fiat) money with the banks, and asking permission for accessing their funds. Bitcoiners, on the other hand, have tasted the freedom of self-cus…

Understanding Bitcoin really can also convince you that it might not be a superior store of value. Think of the consequences of someone breaking SHA256 which, given, at the moment looks absolutely unfeasible, or of some entity or coordinated entities to actually control the main branch, or the cost of energy to mine (and the fees) exceeding the value of bitcoin at a point in time, or more mundane things like loosing the private key of an address.

edit:typos

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#492

Post by klntsky »

Why don't we care about how dynamic typing contributes to global energy consumption? Runtime overhead for preserving type info in memory (on large quantity of machines) is probably comparable to crypto mining (which is performed on very few machines in comparison).

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#493

Post by [deleted] »

nickpp wrote: post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

[deleted]

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#494

Post by nickpp »

nelsonenzo wrote: post #412
nickpp wrote: post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

> reeks of hypocrisy says the bitcoin holder that profits from it's adoption.

I own zero cryptocurrency, they are not aligned with my investment strategy. But I do think they are an experiment worth pursuing.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#495

Post by Erlich_Bachman »

kingkawn wrote: post #421
nickpp wrote: post #332

How much energy does watching porn consume? Playing video games? Watching a movie? Browsing Facebook? Using a ski chair? Visiting an amusement park? Going in vacation? Cooking your favorite type of food? Making ice cream? Driving to your friends? Listening to music? Concerts? Having a party? Banking? Casinos? As a species we use energy to meet our goals. Those goals may be situated anywhere in our hierarchy of needs.…

Why is not wanting to waste electricity on Ponzi schemes so triggering?

It is a really low form of argument to simply use the word "triggering". Implying that the original poster doesn't have any real reasoning behind what they are writing, no original thoughts or responsible viewpoints that they have worked on - instead that they are "triggered", - thus are reacting in a simply emotional way. Implying that somehow all of their argument can be simply discarded.

Really? You mean that just because you have used the word "triggering" (there are no other meaningful arguments in your comment), that would somehow invalidate an argument? What grade is that logic from?

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#496

Post by ashtonkem »

nickpp wrote: post #462
School-Cotton wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin is now considered by some important for our future finance system Yeah, but those people are wrong. It's perfectly reasonable to judge them for doing harmful actions in service of a wrong belief.

Beliefs that used to be "wrong" and now are considered right: abolitionism, homosexuality, marijuana. How do you know this is a wrong belief that will stay wrong?

The existence of other beliefs that were overturned, even ones with a high emotional value now does not support unrelated ideas.

Put more simply: just because gay rights campaigners were ultimately vindicated doesn’t mean you’re their modern equivalent.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#497

Post by DownGoat »

nelsonenzo wrote: post #436
px43 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey there. I'm one of those people who read Schneier's Applied Cryptography in highschool in the 90s, and immediately recognized the groundbreaking potential of using asymmetric cryptography for currency. I work in information security, and have seen first hand how our existing financial infrastructure is held together with string and scotch tape. For 10 years or so, every time I heard about some big credit card thef…

So, what about refunds when corporations rip us off? And what about losing 100% of my funds when my key is lost or stolen? All keys are lost/stolen - it doesn't take a rocket degree to have observed that from human behavior. Who enforces splitting of equity when some rich dick beats his wife into submission? The courts don't control any bitcoin keys. The problems of bitcoin are proportionately larger than then proble…

It would be solved in the same way those problems are solved today, through court. Not following court orders ultimately leads to enforcement through force. You'd end up arrested and jailed at some point.

>> If we are not a bitcoin miner, then how will we get the funds to begin with? Right now I can trade fiat for it, but in the future my children would not be able to trade fiat for it (assuming it's as good as you say it is). So, they will become indentured servants to the bitcoin miners.

I don't quite understand the point you are trying to make here? Cash just don't magically appear today either. Why wouldn't they be able to trade fiat for crypto in the future?

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#498

Post by lottin »

harikb wrote: post #200
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't and even BTC enthusiasts have given up on that. They narrative is now that BTC is a "store of value".

I think both of you agree on this one - once it is too expensive to transact, it will be a permanent store of value ;p

Yes, the only question is what amount of value it will store. N.B.: Zero is an amount.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#499

Post by paystaxes »

SamBam wrote: post #164
yrral wrote: post #83

This is a rehash of a previous post of mine regarding electricity consumption: Back in the days where all our electricity came from fossil fuels, I completely agree that marginal electricity usage was bad for the environment. However I think that thought has persisted with us even though it is no longer true 100% of the time. With renewables sometimes the marginal cost of electricity to our environment is near 0 or e…

I think that this is a great big stretch to try and justify BitCoin mining. I don't know if you personally own BitCoin, but I would say that this is a prime example of motivated reasoning. > or even negative I can see no way that consuming more energy can result in an improvement to the environment (unless that energy usage was directly related to improving the environment). There is absolutely no time where you can…

> I can see no way that consuming more energy can result in an improvement to the environment (unless that energy usage was directly related to improving the environment).

Literally the entire point of the comment you are responding to was to outline how bitcoin mining can help support the economic viability of renewable energy projects like wind farms.

Re: Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index

#500

Post by Taek »

sharpneli wrote: post #440

At that rate and assuming 4tx per second a single Bitcoin transaction consumes 165kWh. A Tesla battery is bit over 50kWh. So let's round that to 3 full charges of Tesla battery. That's 350km/220 miles of range per charge. In total 1050km or 660 miles of driving. So basically if you want to transfer money and the recipient is closer than 660 miles from you it's more efficient to just get a bunch of bills, drive there…

The energy that goes into a Bitcoin transaction doesn't just pay for the one transaction. It also pays for the security of all the value stored in the rest of the system, and that's actually where most of the revenue for mining comes from - inflation, not fees.

But also, Bitcoin transactions aren't typically buying coffee from your local store. It's very often international, and Bitcoin transactions offer a finality and immediateness that can't be found in other financial systems.

But also, in many cases Bitcoin is your only choice to transact at all. Our business keeps getting rejected by payment processors such as Stripe and PayPal, and at this point Bitcoin is our only option to get revenue from Europe. As a result, Bitcoin is making things possible for us and our users that simply aren't possible at all without Bitcoin.

If you think the fees are absurd, make a system that gives all the same benefits to us without costing so much. So far, we don't have an alternative, and we are very grateful that Bitcoin exists as an option.

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