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Rust Foundation: Hello, World

foundation.rust-lang.org

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Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#261

Post by rl3 »

volta83 wrote: post #239
rl3 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems the point of my [now censored] comment was misunderstood. It's not about the fact that the Rust language itself is used to do bad things. It's about what the organizations that comprise the Rust foundation represent. Yeah, I'll grant you the others are indeed guilty of terrible things. Personally I abhore parts of virtually every company there in some way or another. Here's the thing: not every member compan…

> Here's the thing: not every member company is completely beholden to an authoritarian government. Only one is. If you think this is an objectively a bad thing, you should probably compare the per capita excess mortality of China vs the US for 2020... --- The Rust community is very diverse and include people from all around the world, including a huge number of Chinese developers. Not giving China a voice means that…

>If you think this is an objectively a bad thing, you should probably compare the per capita excess mortality of China vs the US for 2020...

Authoritarian regimes are much better equipped than free societies to handle pandemics. That doesn't somehow excuse nor justify crimes against humanity at terrifying scale.

>The Rust community is very diverse and include people from all around the world, including a huge number of Chinese developers.

Including Chinese developers is great. Including a large tech company that has no choice but to act as an arm of its authoritarian government isn't. These are two very different things.

>Not giving China a voice means that "negotiation" is not an option that China can choose when there is a dispute, forcing them to pick some other option instead.

Generally speaking when large-scale atrocities occur, the concern isn't with giving the entity committing said atrocities a voice so much as it is things like international condemnation and exclusion until the abhorrent behavior ceases. Negotiating with and giving voice to authoritarian regimes simply enables them to act in bad faith. History is littered with examples of this. Atrocities become bargaining chips, and that is grotesque.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#262

Post by pjmlp »

yannoninator wrote: post #258
pjmlp wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't twist my words, I explicitly stated that is not the case for C and C++. Your point is the one that is irrelevant, because your are yet to point out a successful programming language on the market according to your world vision. Here are some examples to inspire yourself. Ada, C, C++, Java, Python, Perl, JavaScript, F#, C#, VB.NET, Kotlin, Swift, Objective-C, Delphi, Typescript, Scala, Haskell, OCaml, Ruby, Erla…

So in general for ISO you do have to pay for fees, saying "not the case for C and C++" does not mean they don't do it at all, please don't move goal posts. > Your point is the one that is irrelevant, because your are yet to point out a successful programming language on the market according to your world vision. Is it? I still don't see your point, It seems you've just listed a bunch of languages when I am talking ab…

I am not moving goal posts, we are discussing about Rust here, C and C++ WG members don't pay for membership, the languages Rust is trying to replace, but apparently it doesn't fit into your world view.

Again, please provide a famous programming language thriving on the market that fits your beloved world view.

If you don't have any to share, windmills are over there.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#263

Post by reader_mode »

zepto wrote: post #216
anonyfox wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I‘d love to see Apple joining. They already have the hand on LLVM and support things indirectly, but... There is no reason that serious things written in Rust can‘t coexist with app-y stuff in swift. Seriously, I think we all would benefit enormously from some consolidation, especially on such a great foundation like Rust. Think investments like: compiler-optimizations like V8, portability like C, enterprise grade to…

Pretty much everything you listed is stuff Apple is already doing with Swift, and although Rust is awesome for lower level stuff, and stretches up quite well, Swift really does cover more of the stack of abstraction. That said, I’d say Apple having Swift is part of the reason everyone else is getting involved with Rust. Rust is credible competition for Swift where nothing else is.

I have not used Swift much but the use cases overlap more with C# than Rust IMO.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#264

Post by htgb »

afiori wrote: post #251
heraclius wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find a compose key (see Wikipedia) quite helpful for diacritics, em dashes, &c.—once you get the hang of it, it’s really quite fast and intuitive. One can even add new combinations.

I recently left the linux world and with it the compose key... the most similar (native) thing windows offers are dead keys which I find deeply abhorring. I settled on switching keyboard layouts with Windows+space. I was more curious about the why than the how in a sense.

I use Windows, and haven't used Linux for years. It's probably just a matter of time before I go back, and when I do I know I'll love the compose key.

However, the workaround I use on Windows is Alt key combinations: I memorized the dozen or so patterns [1] I use the most. For example, `Alt + 0160` for non-breaking space, `Alt + 0150` for en dash, `Alt + 26` (and a few more) for arrows and `Alt + 0133` for ellipsis. It must seem crazy when you're used to the compose key.

I haven't heard of dead keys as a workaround. How does it compare? (Wow, this is getting very far from the original topic…)

[1] An important key to memorizing them is to see them as patterns on the numpad, rather than a sequence of digits.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#265

Post by girvo »

reader_mode wrote: post #263
zepto wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much everything you listed is stuff Apple is already doing with Swift, and although Rust is awesome for lower level stuff, and stretches up quite well, Swift really does cover more of the stack of abstraction. That said, I’d say Apple having Swift is part of the reason everyone else is getting involved with Rust. Rust is credible competition for Swift where nothing else is.

I have not used Swift much but the use cases overlap more with C# than Rust IMO.

Having used Swift pretty extensively, I’d say it overlaps both.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#266

Post by Ygg2 »

ironlenny wrote: post #200
pjmlp wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need monocultures.

If everyone uses the same language, they're all going to write the same bugs! /s

Well, each language has a different tradeoff in terms of usability, performance and model.

Like Brainfuck could program anything.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#267

Post by Daho0n »

pjmlp wrote: post #161
anonyfox wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I‘d love to see Apple joining. They already have the hand on LLVM and support things indirectly, but... There is no reason that serious things written in Rust can‘t coexist with app-y stuff in swift. Seriously, I think we all would benefit enormously from some consolidation, especially on such a great foundation like Rust. Think investments like: compiler-optimizations like V8, portability like C, enterprise grade to…

We don't need monocultures.

Then Swift should be replaced by something more mainstream. Adding Rust would be less monoculture than what we have now.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#268

Post by Daho0n »

higerordermap wrote: post #235
dfabulich wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why make the Rust Foundation be its own corporate entity, instead of a project within another major non-profit like the Software Freedom Conservancy? (For those not familiar, SFC is the home of Git, Godot Engine, Homebrew, Inkscape, QEMU, and Wine.) My worry would be that this is happening because Amazon, Google, and Microsoft want control over the foundation. (They are writing the checks, so no surprise they'd want…

> My worry would be that this is happening because Amazon, Google, and Microsoft want control over the foundation. (They are writing the checks, so no surprise they'd want to control how that money gets invested…) I find this attitude surprising. They are paying for development, why they shouldn't have authority to dictate the priorities? If it was SFC, some other interests would be dictating the priorities anyway.

> They are paying for development, why they shouldn't have authority to dictate the priorities?

If you are sponsoring a foundation and can dictate the direction you aren't a sponsor but an employer and owner. Then the foundation is just a way to make good looking PR or get tax-cuts.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#269

Post by Daho0n »

raphlinus wrote: post #34

I'm really happy to see this happen. I'm also really thrilled to see Lars Bergstrom on the board, and am excited about taking Rust farther both at Google and across the industry. Rust is evolving from being centered at Mozilla to being a true community and collaboration between many different groups, including big companies, so I think a well-supported foundation is key. I'm very hopeful for the future.

Interesting.

>"[]... Director of Engineering at Google, working on Android Platform Programming Languages. Previously, I was a Senior Director of Engineering at Mozilla, working on Virtual and Augmented Reality."

https://www.lars.com/

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#270

Post by Daho0n »

torben-friis wrote: post #182
uh_uh wrote: post #113

This is great news, but I have to point it out. Some of the social media handles on the Board of Directors page are hilariously unreadable: https://foundation.rust-lang.org/board/ (Click the pictures to reveal them)

>(Click the pictures to reveal them) Not working for me (iOS/safari). That's a bit weird.

Works fine in Firefox and Chrome in both Android and Windows. Looks like a Safari bug.
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