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Rust Foundation: Hello, World

foundation.rust-lang.org

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Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#141

Post by coder543 »

nahuel0x wrote: post #140
coder543 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Saying that it is "great" is really overselling it at this point, unless the languages you're comparing to are mainly C or C++. I would also toss Ruby in that category for now, but they seem to be working on making async better with Ruby 3+. When compared to Python, JavaScript, or C#... Rust's language support for async isn't really that impressive to most developers, although the implementation has some…

You are right, but this project (or a similar one) who uses WASM based rust nano processes has the potential to leave Go and Erlang in the dust: https://github.com/lunatic-solutions/lunatic

That project does look really fun!

I can't tell if that is pulling V8 in as the WASM interpreter or not. Obviously, I would prefer that they leave others in the dust without having to pull in a huge C++ codebase, but it still sounds promising either way!

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#142

Post by cultofmetatron »

nahuel0x wrote: post #140
coder543 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Saying that it is "great" is really overselling it at this point, unless the languages you're comparing to are mainly C or C++. I would also toss Ruby in that category for now, but they seem to be working on making async better with Ruby 3+. When compared to Python, JavaScript, or C#... Rust's language support for async isn't really that impressive to most developers, although the implementation has some…

You are right, but this project (or a similar one) who uses WASM based rust nano processes has the potential to leave Go and Erlang in the dust: https://github.com/lunatic-solutions/lunatic

when its ready, I'll be happy to try it. That said, the BEAM codebase is around 30 years old and indestructibly stable while being pretty damn fast. Its going to be awhile before anything with teh same goals catches up.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#143

Post by pjmlp »

yannoninator wrote: post #129

Just as crazypython said, it seems that the power has shifted from Mozilla and the community to big corporations on the future of Rust. This is worrying to me in that engineers are naively selling their souls to big corporations just to work on Rust. I'm glad for the formation of the foundation, even though I hear that even Facebook (although not on the board yet) are looking for engineers to work on the Rust compile…

Big corporations are also driving ISO and ECMA languages, so do you feel like selling your soul to work with C?

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#144

Post by nindalf »

codr7 wrote: post #90
protoman3000 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The amount of damage stupid and overconfident people can cause with sharp tools like C is a too high to bear risk. That’s why we instead use Java or (God forbid) JavaScript, but at the expense of speed. Rust tries to gain back this lost speed without making it too easy for idiots to destroy everything. Such code can of course look larger and more convoluted than over decades on every corner optimized C code, but at l…

Making tools for "idiots" didn't really work out so far, that's how we got Cobol and Java. From my experience, empathy works better as a design strategy.

For the record, that word has never been used to describe Rust's goals by those who work on it. The slogan of the language is "empowering everyone to build reliable and efficient software."

And for what it's worth, I think the people working on Rust are empathetic and it shows in their work. For example, he error messages given by the compiler try to hand hold you gently when you're learning the language.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#145

Post by nahuel0x »

coder543 wrote: post #141
nahuel0x wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right, but this project (or a similar one) who uses WASM based rust nano processes has the potential to leave Go and Erlang in the dust: https://github.com/lunatic-solutions/lunatic

That project does look really fun! I can't tell if that is pulling V8 in as the WASM interpreter or not. Obviously, I would prefer that they leave others in the dust without having to pull in a huge C++ codebase, but it still sounds promising either way!

There is no V8 here, you don't need a JS VM to run WASM. It uses wasmer, a Rust based WASM VM: https://github.com/wasmerio/wasmer

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#146

Post by anonyfox »

ChrisSD wrote: post #107

Announcements also from Mozilla, Amazon and Microsoft: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2021/02/08/mozilla-welcomes-th... https://aws.amazon.com/blogs/opensource/congratulations-rust... https://cloudblogs.microsoft.com/opensource/2021/02/08/micro...

I‘d love to see Apple joining. They already have the hand on LLVM and support things indirectly, but...

There is no reason that serious things written in Rust can‘t coexist with app-y stuff in swift.

Seriously, I think we all would benefit enormously from some consolidation, especially on such a great foundation like Rust. Think investments like: compiler-optimizations like V8, portability like C, enterprise grade tooling like Java, productive libraries like Ruby, datascience libs like python, ... it would be great to have all of this in one coherent package.

Why? Instead of glueing together brittle and fragile things where the moving parts break within weeks, reinventing the wheel, we could finally focus on the actual things to build. Bonuspoints for Rust: every other techstack can leverage/profit directly, like when binding C stuff.

Everyone still can innovate like the past decades, languages and libs will be re-explored and reinvented and so on, but, really, a solid baseline would be a dream

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#147

Post by coder543 »

nahuel0x wrote: post #145
coder543 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That project does look really fun! I can't tell if that is pulling V8 in as the WASM interpreter or not. Obviously, I would prefer that they leave others in the dust without having to pull in a huge C++ codebase, but it still sounds promising either way!

There is no V8 here, you don't need a JS VM to run WASM. It uses wasmer, a Rust based WASM VM: https://github.com/wasmerio/wasmer

Awesome! I had heard of wasmer before, but I didn't realize its performance was that good yet. I'll definitely be paying closer attention to this space now.

Although, on closer inspection it seems like wasmer is using LLVM as a backend to get that good performance, which tempers my enthusiasm a little bit. I see that wasmer also supports the Cranelift backend, but the promised performance blog post[1] doesn't seem to have been published yet, so I don't know how much of a difference that makes in the real world.

A ~13x difference in JIT compile time (LLVM vs Cranelift) is huge, and waiting on LLVM itself to compile can also be... exciting. LLVM does good work for AOT compilation, but I don't know how I feel about the trade-offs of using it as a JIT. If a massive C++ code base is going to be pulled in anyways, I would almost rather them pull in V8 than LLVM... but that's just my opinion, since V8 seems to be very well optimized for the JIT use case.

But, I'm glad there is the choice to use Cranelift (and presumably exclude LLVM from the final binary) if that fits a particular use case, and I'm excited to see that follow-up blog post whenever the wasmer team has time to publish it.

[1]: https://medium.com/wasmer/wasmer-1-0-3f86ca18c043

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#148

Post by valarauko »

uh_uh wrote: post #113

This is great news, but I have to point it out. Some of the social media handles on the Board of Directors page are hilariously unreadable: https://foundation.rust-lang.org/board/ (Click the pictures to reveal them)

What's with the crabs? Is it an inside joke I'm not getting?

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#150

Post by brabel »

valarauko wrote: post #148
uh_uh wrote: post #113

This is great news, but I have to point it out. Some of the social media handles on the Board of Directors page are hilariously unreadable: https://foundation.rust-lang.org/board/ (Click the pictures to reveal them)

What's with the crabs? Is it an inside joke I'm not getting?

I think it started with the name given to Rust programmers: Rustaceans.

It is close to crustaceans so I think the puns just got out of hand from there :D

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