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NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

greenwald.substack.com

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Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#301
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point, well I have more than one really, they are 1) if these evil mobs are really any semblance of a threat, pointing at them every time a blue check decides to go after ideological opponents desensitizes us to it, and 2) the only prominent examples of what you're saying exists and is a danger are perpetrated by the people reminding us of this ever present danger. You can't defend baseless attacks against things…

No that's fine, I think we're actually in agreement. I want also want the two disassociated! It just seems like whenever deplatforming comes up like this people's gut reaction is to say that its bad in absolute terms and that getting rid of the very worst who do real harm is the same as silencing political views you don't like. I absolutely do not want to give off the impression that I approve of the WSB scaremongeri…

Lynch mob is wrong, even if it hangs the right man on occasion.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think the tone is atrocious? What makes you think he holds digust? He seemed to raise many separate facts and past situations to prove his point, do read the article and come back with logical arguments.

The point of the article is that journalists telling tales on dubious things semi-public figures wrote on social media is bad, particularly when they make evidence-free claims about their motives for doing it and appear to mostly be trying to encourage an enraged mob to pile on. In isolation, this might be considered a reasonable point to make. To prove his point the author, a journalist, spends most of his article t…

> tale about a dubious thing

I don't understand? The difference between author and NYT reporter is one reported a lie, and the other reported based off of facts (though will a lot of emotion/ tone).

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#303
post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there is no reason you shouldn't still be a Free Speech absolutist (I still am) so long as you don't fall for the disinformation that Free Speech means freedom from social consequences. That's your definition of free speech and censorship. Others use those terms in a more broad sense. But even if you don't like that they do that, you should invoke the principle of charity and actually argue the point that is being m…

> That's your definition of free speech and censorship. It's both the US legal definition and the correct definition, because anything else becomes self-contradicting. Forcing someone to say or support another person's speech is never Free Speech. And that's what denying them the right to not speak, not help, and not associate with someone else means. > Namely, malevolent self-serving actors, sometimes represented by…

This is not a free speech issue under your (one true and only correct) definition of free speech.

Imagine a bully goes up to a citizen and tells them to be quiet about, say, potholes on their street because if they don't "it would be unfortunate should you and your spouse lose your jobs and your professional reputations destroyed".

In this analogy, there is no threat of violence. Nothing the bully said was illegal as far as I can tell. But when a bystander looks at this and says it's wrong and unethical for a bully to do that, guys like you crawl out of the woodwork and start yelling about Free Speech rights of the bully. But we're not talking about Free Speech rights. We're talking about the ethics of mobilizing the social media mob to destroy people's lives, frequently over nothing other than vague innuendo. As far as I know in any of these situations, no laws are broken, and yet, there is something deeply wrong here.

Here's another example: Because we are living through a kind of a mass hysteria moment, the similarity to 'Salem witch trials' is quite striking. In that case, teenage girls accused hundreds of people of witchcraft and consequently those people would be ostracized and their lives destroyed (for the sake of argument, let's ignore the small number of people who were put to death because we would both agree that is wrong on another level). If someone highlights this as a major issue, do you go out, frothing at the mouth, and yell about free speech rights of the teenage girls? Isn't that missing the entire point?

>It's her freedom of speech to do so, so long as it's actually true as opposed to defamation.

The irony in all this is you didn't even bother reading the article ... or the HN headline. She did defame Andreessen because she maliciously and malevolently asserted something that he said, that he didn't say (when called out about it she fell back on 'well, it was male voice' which was another lie).

But even if he said this 'r-word' in context of explaining the WSB phenomena, this malevolent 'reporter' is doing the same thing as the Salem teenage girls did when they accused others of witchcraft. In this case, she's accusing Andreessen of blaspheming against holy tenants of wokeism in order to paint him as a bigot so the mob will do the rest. Why? So that his public image and professional reputation would be destroyed and maybe she gets a higher profile and a raise. When people point out this is wrong, you yell about Free Speech.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point of the article is that journalists telling tales on dubious things semi-public figures wrote on social media is bad, particularly when they make evidence-free claims about their motives for doing it and appear to mostly be trying to encourage an enraged mob to pile on. In isolation, this might be considered a reasonable point to make. To prove his point the author, a journalist, spends most of his article t…

> tale about a dubious thing I don't understand? The difference between author and NYT reporter is one reported a lie, and the other reported based off of facts (though will a lot of emotion/ tone).

Sure, the journalist's tweet was incorrect, but in Glenn's own words "that she got it all wrong is arguably the least humiliating and pathetic aspect of all of this".. His entire schtick is that "tattletale" hanging out in forums naming and shaming of people for comments they made is bad, and he does so in an article consisting entirely of naming and shaming people, ending by saying that people should feel obligation to scorn them

A freelancer tweets a banal point that Substack's level of direct support for its writers means that - unlike Patreon - at some stage they're going to have to consider perceived editorial slant if they end up promoting a lot of high profile contratrians, and receives a whole 17 likes for doing so. Several months later Greenwald accuses him of the thoughtcrime of "shaming Substack" and includes him on his list of people to heap scorn on. And Glenn wants you to believe it's other journalists that have developed an unhealthy obsession with hanging out on social media looking for targets...

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AS far as I can tell, it wasn’t even a news story. It was a tweet. And then later clarified after brought to her attention. I find it hard to believe that it justifies this long blog. This is the first thing I’ve seen him wrote in years. And it is horrible.

> it wasn’t even a news story. It was a tweet. If this had turned out to be true, it surely would have sparked several news stories. The reason that such a long post by Greenwald was warranted is that the journalist was clearly trying to create a story with the tweet.

Given the fact that she is a journalist, couldn’t she just write the story?

And she later noted the clarification that it wasn’t him.

I don’t hold tweets at the same bar as a reputable news publication. Tweets are often point in time, not verified, often on whim.

Grenwald’s blog seemed more appropriate for yellow cake taking us to war than this tweet.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#306
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree with you that mere size at all makes a company quasi-governmental and in particular disagree with your chosen example of social media. It's not size, but power. Twitter's curation algorithms have massive unilateral influence on public opinion (reaching far beyond its own user-base) probably including the ability to sway national presidential elections. I'm not aware of any utility companies with such pow…

> It's not size, but power. Twitter's curation algorithms have massive unilateral influence on public opinion (reaching far beyond its own user-base) probably including the ability to sway national presidential elections. Yes, and? "The ability to sway national presidential elections" (or any other elections) was of course one of the founding points of free speech in America. You just described major newspapers and p…

[deleted]

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the most hilariously disingenuous take on what happened at the Capitol that I've read so far, so points for that. Nearly 95% of all protests this summer were non-violent, and 80% of all protests were linked to BLM: https://acleddata.com/2020/09/03/demonstrations-political-vi... Point out to me a single BLM protest where both: • 6 people died • BLM stormed a capitol building while the legislative body was in se…

So I don't have skin in the game here, and I'm definitely no fan of the comment you responded to (not appropriate for this forum and not conducive to real discussion) but I figured I'd point out 1 person was killed at the capitol and she was shot by DC police, another cop was thought to have been killed with a fire extinguisher but that is currently being investigated, and the rest died of heart attacks and things li…

Maybe it was a little disingenuous. Of the 5 (my apologies) that died, 1 was a stroke, 1 was a heart attack, 1 was crushed by the mob, and we know what happened to the other 2.

I could be wrong, but I still don't think there was a single BLM protest this summer where 3 people were killed.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#308
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I disagree with you that mere size at all makes a company quasi-governmental and in particular disagree with your chosen example of social media. It's not size, but power. Twitter's curation algorithms have massive unilateral influence on public opinion (reaching far beyond its own user-base) probably including the ability to sway national presidential elections. I'm not aware of any utility companies with such pow…

> It's not size, but power. Twitter's curation algorithms have massive unilateral influence on public opinion (reaching far beyond its own user-base) probably including the ability to sway national presidential elections. Yes, and? "The ability to sway national presidential elections" (or any other elections) was of course one of the founding points of free speech in America. You just described major newspapers and p…

I think I was perfectly clear, and yet you still seemed to miss each and every one of my points and by a large margin. I’m not sure if you’re being willfully obtuse or not, but in either case I don’t see anything good coming from further discussion.

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#309

Some thoughts on the bigger picture- 1: Really? Do you have to write "r-word" instead of "retard" when you're writing about someone saying something? What if Marc literally said "r-word" and I'm vastly underestimating how woke this reporter is? Wait, I have a solution. Use the actual word that a person said when quoting them. Just write the exact sentence where you think Marc said the word retard. Nobody should prose…

> Really? Do you have to write "r-word" instead of "retard" when you're writing about someone saying something?

By the standards of the New York Times, yes.

They parted with a journalist in the past week for making this error with the n-word:

> “We do not tolerate racist language regardless of intent," Baquet and Managing Editor Joseph Kahn wrote to staffers Friday.

> [...]

> [The Times] also shared a note from McNeil, who explained that he had repeated a racial slur in asking a question about the use of the slur. “I should not have done that. Originally, I thought the context in which I used this ugly word could be defended. I now realize that it cannot. It is deeply offensive and hurtful. The fact that I even thought I could defend it itself showed extraordinarily bad judgement. For that I apologize.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2021/02/05/new-york-tim...

EDIT: formatting

Re: NYT reporter falsely accuses tech investor of using a slur

#310
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the idea is that a slur is a much stronger insult typically aimed at one's ethnicity. What's being said here is that the word retard is an insult, but does not rise to the level/strength of a slur.

Wait I’m misunderstand you, right? Reading your comment it almost seems like yours saying that the r word isn’t a slur or isn’t that bad of one?! It’s a word that takes a whole class of people and uses them as an insult when talking about other people. Are you seriously going to try to pull some narrow technical originalist definition to argue that in this specific edition of this specific dictionary it defines “slur…

I think it lessons other, more hurtful, words that are used as slurs.

Look, we should be polite and not use offensive words, but be consistent. The referenced word is rude and offensive but in no way the same room as words that have resulted in lynching, genocide, systematic oppression.

If we want to go all polite and ban all “slurs” then we’ll be getting butthurt over calling someone “stupid” or “idiot.” And of course I’ve worked with people who are upset at any foul language and even blasphemy.

Are we going to get to a point that major reporters are thinking it’s attention worthy to say someone says “Goddammit?”

Arguing over whether that’s as offensive as another word just a matter of time and we are experiencing a slippery slope.

Either we’re going to get offended by everything and live in China/Disneyworld where there’s never offense, or we’re going to stop getting hysterical over unimportant things and use that attention to fight real, difficult, systematic problems.

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