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Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

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Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#91

Post by kbenson »

free_rms wrote: post #59
kbenson wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, I've read the first two, I was responding to that statement as it's usually applied in conversation or argument. The discussion and exploration of it is worthwhile. It's common use as a "call to arms" less so.

The third book is good, almost as good as the second imo. Manages to become completely insane while still feeling believable at each step.

It's on my TODO list, I just had a bunch of stuff jump in front of it. I thoroughly enjoyed the first and second books. :)

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#92

Post by v-yadli »

glenstein wrote: post #31
da_big_ghey wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is well known that the CCP holds one's family hostage in cases when one goes abroad, as collateral against one's return: https://www.businessinsider.com/liu-changming-china-holds-of... https://www.businessinsider.com/how-china-deals-with-dissent... It is an open secret that this is the case for many students who come to American universities, and this is often how they coerce them into sending back IP and trade se…

I think it's true in those circumstances, but I don't believe that's part of a systematic policy. I would imagine that the possibility of Cixin Liu leaving would be contingent on whatever the idiosyncrasies are of his personal circumstances. I would say he's not necessarily constrained by the examples you've cited, though they raise a valid concern.

The GP is basically saying, it is well known that every police is a piano (police is an instrument for keeping order, piano is an instrument).

This kind of logic misusage is strangely common in affairs towards China but I'm not too surprised.

I still recommend just sit down, exchange information, and think.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#93

Post by free_rms »

smsm42 wrote: post #89
free_rms wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This thread started under the topic "believe it or not, Chinese people are actually pretty happy with their government given the record over the last few decades". Can you think about what would be persuasive to such a person? They're not American, didn't grow up on your information diet, and really don't give a shit about what's "communist" or not. Their economy is state-controlled to the tune of Norway, or a little…

I've lived in a totalitarian state, and you can't really observe how happy the people are when their rights and means of expression are constantly suppressed. Even if some people were happy with the arrangement, I'm pretty sure people who are imprisoned, stripped of basic rights and sometimes just disassembled for spare organs aren't that happy. > didn't grow up on your information diet You don't know the first thing…

> You don't know the first thing about my information diet.

You've given some pretty strong hints about it in fact, and tripled down in this comment.

I'll go out on a very specific limb, tell me I'm wrong: Moved to the US from an eastern european country at a young age, perhaps exactly 1989, parents talk a lot about how bad it was?

And "state-controlled to the tune of Norway" is approximately accurate, thank you. You know they have gigantic private corporations there? Alongside the state-owned oil behemoths, Norway makes for a particularly nice comparison.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#94

Post by DennisP »

elihu wrote: post #33

This seems like the most controversial bit here: > There’s a strange contradiction revealed by the naïveté and kindness demonstrated by humanity when faced with the universe: On Earth, humankind can step onto another continent, and without a thought, destroy the kindred civilizations found there through warfare and disease. But when they gaze up at the stars, they turn sentimental and believe that if extraterrestrial…

The aliens in Cixin Liu's books don't blow each other up because they're trying to expand. They do it because there's no defense against getting blown up, so the only safe option is to blow up the other guys as soon as you detect them. There's no possibility of a tit-for-tat if you're dead as soon as the other side defects.

I once read an article that calculated how much warning we'd have, if we could detect an incoming projectile at the edge of the solar system, and it were approaching the Earth at .99c. Since it would be traveling just behind the light we see from it, the answer was eight seconds. Cixin Liu might have a point.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#95

Post by DennisP »

webmaven wrote: post #71
elihu wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can imagine a scenario where the only way our species survives is to detect an alien civilization before they detect us, and to nuke their homeworld preemtively because they would do the same to us. Tit-for-tat doesn't really work when a first-strike can kill everyone. Or to put it another way, tit-for-tat only works in iterated prisoner's dilemma. If an encounter with aliens is more like a single-round prisoner'…

> Or to put it another way, tit-for-tat only works in iterated prisoner's dilemma. If an encounter with aliens is more like a single-round prisoner's dilemma, we're in a bit of a bind. The only way the dark forest scenario is not an iterated prisoner's dilemma (albeit an odd one) is if no information about the encounter can leak to subsequent first encounters. In other words, if you're going to eliminate anyone you e…

That's only a problem if your own location is revealed. In the dark forest, everyone is hidden and attacks are anonymous.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#96

Post by glenstein »

v-yadli wrote: post #92
glenstein wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's true in those circumstances, but I don't believe that's part of a systematic policy. I would imagine that the possibility of Cixin Liu leaving would be contingent on whatever the idiosyncrasies are of his personal circumstances. I would say he's not necessarily constrained by the examples you've cited, though they raise a valid concern.

The GP is basically saying, it is well known that every police is a piano (police is an instrument for keeping order, piano is an instrument). This kind of logic misusage is strangely common in affairs towards China but I'm not too surprised. I still recommend just sit down, exchange information, and think.

I'll be blunt. I understood your first line but I am completely lost with your second and third sentences. What kind of logic misusage? Mine? GPs? Who is supposed to sit down and exchange information? Me? GP? Cixin Liu? Exchange information with whom and to what end?

And are police being an "instrument" supposed to indicate that holding domestic relatives hostage is indeed a systematic policy rather than a circumstantial tactic particular to special cases, and is failing to understand that is a misuse of logic?

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#97

Post by smsm42 »

free_rms wrote: post #93
smsm42 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in a totalitarian state, and you can't really observe how happy the people are when their rights and means of expression are constantly suppressed. Even if some people were happy with the arrangement, I'm pretty sure people who are imprisoned, stripped of basic rights and sometimes just disassembled for spare organs aren't that happy. > didn't grow up on your information diet You don't know the first thing…

> You don't know the first thing about my information diet. You've given some pretty strong hints about it in fact, and tripled down in this comment. I'll go out on a very specific limb, tell me I'm wrong: Moved to the US from an eastern european country at a young age, perhaps exactly 1989, parents talk a lot about how bad it was? And "state-controlled to the tune of Norway" is approximately accurate, thank you. You…

> tell me I'm wrong

You are not wrong about me being born in an Eastern European country (no shit, Sherlock, I told about it in this very topic pretty transparently, and mentioned it many times otherwise on HN), but very wrong about all the rest. Ok, except for the fact I am presently in the US (which also doesn't require genius-level detective insight as I also referred to this fact many times). As internet telepathy goes, I give you C- - at least you could read what I write, lesser minds would conclude if I said I lived in a totalitarian state I must have been born in North Korea.

That said, I am not sure what it has to do with my information diet anyway - I assume you are not going to tell me my place of birth somehow prescribes my information sources? That makes no sense whatsoever. Even if you guessed my whole biography right - which you mostly failed at with an exception of a couple of details which I pretty much explicitly told you - you still wouldn't have any idea what my information diet is. And you do not, of course.

> And "state-controlled to the tune of Norway" is approximately accurate, thank you.

Repeating a falsity does not make it less false. Norway has plenty of socialist stuff going on, but nowhere on the level that CCP totalitarian control goes. Not even same order of magnitude.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#98

Post by free_rms »

smsm42 wrote: post #97
free_rms wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You don't know the first thing about my information diet. You've given some pretty strong hints about it in fact, and tripled down in this comment. I'll go out on a very specific limb, tell me I'm wrong: Moved to the US from an eastern european country at a young age, perhaps exactly 1989, parents talk a lot about how bad it was? And "state-controlled to the tune of Norway" is approximately accurate, thank you. You…

> tell me I'm wrong You are not wrong about me being born in an Eastern European country (no shit, Sherlock, I told about it in this very topic pretty transparently, and mentioned it many times otherwise on HN), but very wrong about all the rest. Ok, except for the fact I am presently in the US (which also doesn't require genius-level detective insight as I also referred to this fact many times). As internet telepath…

I did say I was out on a limb..

Anyways, you've made clear that your reference point for understanding China is Soviet Eastern Europe. If you check a map and a calendar, you can see some places where that reference point might be inexact.

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#99

Post by woshicoolbe »

cromwellian wrote: post #84
fspeech wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point I was responding to was whether the western audience is well served if the media only focus on the negative side of the China story. It is not the same as the local paper's focus on crimes and tragedies. My main concern is that my boys don't get conscripted into serving in a future war promoted by people who don't paint a realistic picture of the world, on both what China is and on how much power the West (…

I don't think there will be a war with China, I don't want a war with China, and a war with China would be disasterous, even if it didn't involve nuclear weapons, it would disrupt the global supply chain. In fact, leaving aside China, I don't want the US involved in any wars, I don't want them selling arms, whether large or small, to countries, I don't want them running proxy wars. I've lived in China, much of what t…

It looks like you are very well informed and very eloquent. Do you have any plan or actions to help to solve the problem of nationalism and oppression towards Uyghurs?

Re: Cixin Liu's Postscript for the American Edition for “The Three Body Problem”

#100

Post by smsm42 »

free_rms wrote: post #98
smsm42 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> tell me I'm wrong You are not wrong about me being born in an Eastern European country (no shit, Sherlock, I told about it in this very topic pretty transparently, and mentioned it many times otherwise on HN), but very wrong about all the rest. Ok, except for the fact I am presently in the US (which also doesn't require genius-level detective insight as I also referred to this fact many times). As internet telepath…

I did say I was out on a limb.. Anyways, you've made clear that your reference point for understanding China is Soviet Eastern Europe. If you check a map and a calendar, you can see some places where that reference point might be inexact.

No, I didn't make it clear. I did make it clear I have a personal experience living in a totalitarian county, but I also read books, articles, historical documents, and many other sources of information I encountered over the years that allow me to know about things I haven't personally experienced. I can also conclude since your only argument now is to personally attack me, you're out of ammo. Which is what usually happens to communist apologists - it's not something one can argue for very long without going dry on substance and having to resort to tricks.
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