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I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

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Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#181

Post by TameAntelope »

throwawaygh wrote: post #178
TameAntelope wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One question for you: how does an engineer know what to automate?

How does a people manager know what to automate? And, more importantly, what might be the massive unintended consequences of routing your org's permission structure in the same way you route its head-count? Strategic decision-making is not the same as people managing, and people managing can even create blind-spots that get in the way of good decision-making.

A manager (who said anything about people manager? I even explicitly said otherwise) knows what to build because she's coordinated with the groups who spend their entire day focusing on the customer, as well as the other developer groups to make sure everyone isn't working on the same thing, as well as leadership so they know what's being built and how it aligns with their goals and vision into the market (because that's what their expertise is in), as well as within her own team to make sure people are building things that can work together smoothly/cleanly, as well as covering for people who have illness/unavailability, and so on...

Would you rather have developers wearing every hat in an org? When would they find time to code? I know many developers who don't want to have to do all of that work simultaneously, and are extremely grateful for a manager who can take many of these tasks off their plate.

When was the last time you tried to add a recurring meeting to a development team's calendar? They... don't like it, in my experience, and I respect the hell out of that.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#182

Post by jonas21 »

kristinamay wrote: post #171
site-packages1 wrote: post #151

I think the title on HN is different than the title in the actual article, and has different implications. The HN title implies that getting "demoted" wasn't the goal but a bad effect of following dreams. The title from the actual article, "I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer," is much better: clearly the "demotion" was the goal of following their dreams.

FWIW I saw the feedback in here on the title, agreed with the potential for misinterpretation, and changed it in the original blog post to make its intended meaning more clear. The title was correct when it was posted.

Ah, interesting. One word can make a huge difference!

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#183

Post by ironmagma »

CivBase wrote: post #131
ironmagma wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher risk begets higher premiums.

Why? The relationship between contribution and compensation is obvious. If you bring more value to the company, the company compensates you directly with a portion of that value. But why does a position with greater risk necessitate greater compensation? EDIT: Everything below here was in the original post. However, I re-read it and realized it had little to do with the relationship between risk and compensation. I d…

It’s a generally accepted principle in economics/finance that the more risk you take on, the more up-front compensation you can expect. This is less about the risk the reports pose to the manager and more about the risk of the manager position itself and the high opportunity for spectacular failure.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#186

Post by Geminidog »

kazinator wrote: post #162
Geminidog wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say anything hateful towards women. I think women get this better treatment then men but I didn't say they should turn it down nor did I say they didn't deserve it. I simply pointed out a difference. And what wrong with switching from Janitor to SWE? Same basic job switch from one another field with completely different skillets but completely different treatment due to perceived ranking.

> I think women get this better treatment Don't forget that chubby, 59-year-old females are also women, though.

Good point. It's an attraction thing. Women who are unattractive do not have these advantages.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#187

Post by throwawaygh »

TameAntelope wrote: post #181
throwawaygh wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a people manager know what to automate? And, more importantly, what might be the massive unintended consequences of routing your org's permission structure in the same way you route its head-count? Strategic decision-making is not the same as people managing, and people managing can even create blind-spots that get in the way of good decision-making.

A manager (who said anything about people manager? I even explicitly said otherwise) knows what to build because she's coordinated with the groups who spend their entire day focusing on the customer, as well as the other developer groups to make sure everyone isn't working on the same thing, as well as leadership so they know what's being built and how it aligns with their goals and vision into the market (because th…

Where did I say we don't need managers? I explicitly said otherwise: Invest in your automators and treat your people managers as a low-value-add cost center.

Just because you treat something as low-value-add or admit it's a cost center doesn't mean you don't need that work to happen!

> When was the last time you tried to add a recurring meeting to a development team's calendar?

Yes, I agree, managers' secretarial and political work is incredibly important to the success of an org. But the 1960s idea that it's a "force multiplier" worth high comp is a mistake.

I'm not contesting whether managerial work is important or necessary or to be respected. I'm contesting the idea that managerial work is a force multiplier for individual contributors, in any sense other than in the same sense that janitorial work or admin assistant work is a force multiplier. The only orgs where I've seen managers to be actual force multipliers were body shops.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#189

Post by Geminidog »

carlisle_ wrote: post #174
Geminidog wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've mentored guys and girls and I knew one coworker who literally had sex with the interns he "mentored." It can be both sexual and non-sexual and both at the same time. Definitely if the minuscule "possibility" of sex is open, that is an "advantage" that a woman may knowingly or unknowing take advantage of.

Htf do you call yourself a feminist with posts like this?

Because I support equal opportunity for all genders. I assume this is what feminism supports as well.

Is there somewhere in my post where I implied otherwise? Please cite what I said that made you think I am not a feminist.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#190

Post by daniellarusso »

bradlys wrote: post #122
purple-again wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were director of design! I am not part of that company so it’s possible that director is a joke there but in most companies that’s the highest level prior to the c suite/owners (public company/professional services firms). That would mean she likely had immense autonomy and a large group of direct reports whom themselves had teams of direct reports. Going from that to “just a coder” ie one team member of one tea…

> That would mean she likely had immense autonomy and a large group of direct reports whom themselves had teams of direct reports. As someone who has worked at a variety of companies - this isn't true. It's just a title. I've seen plenty of "director of X" with no direct reports. I don't know how big Stack Overflow's design department is but with only 300 people in the company - I can't imagine it being massive enoug…

I have seen all members of a sales team all have the title of ‘Director of Business Development’ simultaneously.

I don’t know what one calls the director of directors, though.

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