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I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

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Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#171

Post by kristinamay »

site-packages1 wrote: post #151

I think the title on HN is different than the title in the actual article, and has different implications. The HN title implies that getting "demoted" wasn't the goal but a bad effect of following dreams. The title from the actual article, "I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer," is much better: clearly the "demotion" was the goal of following their dreams.

FWIW I saw the feedback in here on the title, agreed with the potential for misinterpretation, and changed it in the original blog post to make its intended meaning more clear. The title was correct when it was posted.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#172

Post by torgard »

ignoramous wrote: post #89

Reminds me of a "self-demotion" that worked out well: That of a certain Allan Vermeulen [0] who, by some accounts, was the chief architect of Amazon S3 [1], and by all accounts, an engineer extraordinaire. Vermeulen managed the Platform Services group when he joined [2], and later moved to a CTO role with focus on the then very nascent Web Services initiative [3], but eventually "demoted" himself to an "AWS Engineer"…

Thanks for sharing! I had not heard about him.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#173

Post by cperciva »

Gehinnn wrote: post #136
cperciva wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of a joke about a violist who finds a magic lamp and asks to become a better musician. Promotion depends on perspective.

Do you mean this joke? [1] Don't disrespect the violists! [1] ( https://www.reddit.com/r/Jokes/comments/ab5oht/a_violists_3_... )

Yes, subject to minor variations. The version I heard had him going from the back of the section in a community (amateur) orchestra to playing in the Toronto Symphony to leading the viola section in the Berlin Philharmonic -- and making the same wish ("make me a better musician") each time.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#174

Post by carlisle_ »

Geminidog wrote: post #160
trollolo1 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where'd the comment go? I wanted to say tell that guy that my manager is actually competent, so he has my respect, but I would not capitalize the word "boss". He may pay your bills, yet that doesn't make him family[1]. Anyway, I see guys mentoring guys all the time. There's nothing sexual 'bout it! [1] https://www.grammarly.com/blog/capitalization-family-title/

I've mentored guys and girls and I knew one coworker who literally had sex with the interns he "mentored." It can be both sexual and non-sexual and both at the same time. Definitely if the minuscule "possibility" of sex is open, that is an "advantage" that a woman may knowingly or unknowing take advantage of.

Htf do you call yourself a feminist with posts like this?

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#175

Post by 100011_100001 »

ballenf wrote: post #85
CivBase wrote: post #70

Can someone explain to me why titles like Engineer, Architect, and Developer are perceived as having less value than titles like Manager or Director? Managing products requires a completely different skill set from managing people. Both skills are vital to the success of a business and neither are trivially developed or easily replaced. If you ask me, the "demotion" in this article is not going from Director of Desig…

Making a big mistake as a manager can cost the company a lot more than a big mistake as an individual Engineer, Architect or Developer, especially if you consider that the latter roles will catch many of each others' mistakes. The manager level can result in entire teams quitting, failing to support each other or an atmosphere where catching each others' mistakes is discouraged. Some jobs are paid based (roughly) on…

This is factually not true. Developers can make big mistakes to bring entire companies down with them. Of course it depends on the definition of "mistake". However I can claim that a single defect caused by a developer can cost the company money and downtime, if nothing else a bad user experience.

Managers don't generate defects. Developers do. Not to mention that a lot of the times it's much harder to reverse an engineering decision vs a managerial one.

Most outages are caused by developers and IT, not managers. This perception that there is higher risk as a manager is false. As a developer I make multiple decisions daily, interpret vague requirements, make judgement calls, request new technologies etc. My manager understands about 20% of the decisions I make. Here is the kicker since I work in DevOps, with a super heavy emphasis on the Dev side. 70% of my decisions have wide ranging effect, much wider than my manager's eight person team.

Finally note that no one really talks about 10x Managers, but people talk about 10x Developers. Why is that? Managers are glorified cheerleaders. Most managers are average, their value is vague but they are controlled by managers so its an endless loop till you hit the worker layer that get things done.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#176

Post by seankimdesign »

nomdep wrote: post #105

A terrible career move. As other commenter said, if there wasn't a pay cut, is because of the company charity. Now she has to be not only a good coder but a great one, (and in a tech stack she didn't had used already). Otherwise, a year from now, they might not feel so charitable, and the story will be "from director of design to fired IC". A friend of mine made a similar mistake once, believing the BS of the "parall…

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion so fast. It depends on what you're looking for in your career. I too have made a similar move from UX designer -> Junior engineer a few years back. The paycut hurt at the beginning and it took a lot of self-learning, but looking back I'm very with the decision I made. We spend so much of our lives at work, so what's wrong with aligning it with something you love?

Besides, it's not like software engineering doesn't pay. Even before I landed by current SV big tech job, I had more than made up for the initial paycut I took at a local startup.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#177

Post by JJMcJ »

ysavir wrote: post #56
gumby wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about it makes you insecure? It's about someone who changed jobs because they decided they'd prefer to do something else. It isn't one of those "in six weeks I turned my side gig into a Nobel-prize winning web site and now I'm a billionaire" clickbait articles.

Probably due to the very poor and misleading article title, which frames the situation as a "demotion", something that happens to us, not something that we decide to do. The article has a good message, but the title is absolute click-bait. Many people might come across the title, and although not interested in reading it, walk away with the idea that following dreams leads to negative consequences. I hope the author…

The online article's title is a bit less click bait than the transcription here on HN, but it's still misleading.

"I followed my dreams, left management, and love being a coder again" might be more on target.

Demotion has a very negative connotation.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#178

Post by throwawaygh »

TameAntelope wrote: post #169
throwawaygh wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you make a decision as a manager or a director, the impact of that decision has a multiplicative force. Every time I hear this explanation, I can't help but think "so we're still smoking Luck Strikes, huh?" When you make a decision as a software engineer, the impact of that decision can often have a multiplicative or even exponential force. The goal of 21st century organizations -- especially software organiza…

One question for you: how does an engineer know what to automate?

How does a people manager know what to automate?

And, more importantly, what might be the massive unintended consequences of routing your org's permission structure in the same way you route its head-count?

Strategic decision-making is not the same as people managing, and people managing can even create blind-spots that get in the way of good decision-making.

Re: I followed my dreams to get demoted to software developer

#179

Post by jansan »

notyourday wrote: post #62

Two questions: 1. Did the new role come with a pay cut? If no, it was not a demotion. 2. Is someone else pulling enough money where 1. did not matter? If so, then it is a hobby move.

She may have felt superior to software developers, so in her eyes it may look like a demotion.

I run a small company which does software development and graphic design. i could describe myself as a CEO, entrepreneur, software engineer or graphic designer. But whenever someone asks me what my job is, I say "programmer". That's how I identify and IMHO it is a very challenging and honorable job.

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