Rust Foundation: Hello, World • Hacker News Board

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#41

Post by steveklabnik » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

manishsharan wrote: post #31

malwrar wrote: post #11

Awesome news! Rust is easily the best programming experience I've had--the language feels incredibly well thought out, common tooling like doc generation and dependency management are included with the language, and the compiler takes full advantage of language features such that my editor's linter is able to detect most mistakes I make and the language itself guards me from doing anything obviously unsafe. I thought…

serious question : would you recommend Rust for CRUDdy type of web applications -- stuff where mostly you are firing off prepared statememts at a SQL db and then applying business logic to result set. This is what most J2EE apps do currently.

We are doing some web backend stuff in Rust at Oxide, my colleagues gave a talk on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmSjZbSzA3A

The TL;DR is it may or may not make sense for you. Engineering! We are finding it valuable, but you may have different needs than we do. Ecosystem maturity is variable.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#42

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

lvass wrote: post #29

rattray wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love the FSF, but frankly as a user, I'm glad that not just anybody can claim to be Rust. Especially so now that the trademark is controlled by a dedicated nonprofit.

But how could anyone reasonably claim they are Rust, particularly given the large reach of it's online services, like docs, crates.io and rustup? Those trademarks are very unlikely to produce anything except another round of debian's icy rebrands.

[deleted]

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#43

Post by yudlejoza » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

As a C developer, after getting sick and tired of hearing about Rust everywhere, I decided to do a bit of assessment in terms of code-size complexity.

I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust.

I have never seen grep source code. I told myself, if I download ripgrep-on-Rust and grep-on-C and find out that ripgrep is doing all it's doing in one-tenth the size of grep source code, or even half the code size, I'd be quite impressed, and be willing to take Rust seriously.

Well guess what, I downloaded the two sources. Grep source code is about 4k LoC. ripgrep? about 24k.

WTF.

I thought maybe I was mistaken. I went into the ripgrep source directory and started going through the individual subdirectories under 'crates'.

- printer: 4664

- core: 4561

- searcher: 4360

- ignore: 4321

If your printing code, and your searching code individually is the size of the whole machinery of grep, I feel sorry for you. If this is the state of the rewrite-everything gang, I can't take those guys and their language seriously. I just can't.

edit: to those who're saying ripgrep is more than grep. First, I know. Second, wouldn't it be great if someone could rewrite ripgrep in C? Now I'm really curious to find out the code-size complexity of all the ripgrep features backported to grep.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#44

Post by tmountain » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

manishsharan wrote: post #31

malwrar wrote: post #11

Awesome news! Rust is easily the best programming experience I've had--the language feels incredibly well thought out, common tooling like doc generation and dependency management are included with the language, and the compiler takes full advantage of language features such that my editor's linter is able to detect most mistakes I make and the language itself guards me from doing anything obviously unsafe. I thought…

serious question : would you recommend Rust for CRUDdy type of web applications -- stuff where mostly you are firing off prepared statememts at a SQL db and then applying business logic to result set. This is what most J2EE apps do currently.

Can't speak to Rust, but this is a sweet spot for Golang for sure.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#45

Post by adamch » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

yudlejoza wrote: post #43

As a C developer, after getting sick and tired of hearing about Rust everywhere, I decided to do a bit of assessment in terms of code-size complexity. I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust. I have never seen grep source code. I told myself, if I download ripgrep-on-Rust and grep-on-C and find out that ripgrep is doing all it's doing in one-tenth the size of grep so…

Perhaps the developers had a success metric other than LOC.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#46

Post by lvass » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

ChrisSD wrote: post #38

lvass wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how could anyone reasonably claim they are Rust, particularly given the large reach of it's online services, like docs, crates.io and rustup? Those trademarks are very unlikely to produce anything except another round of debian's icy rebrands.

Rust is already in Debian's repository. The trademarks haven't been an issue at all.

It seems no one had to rebrand Rust yet, but can you guarantee this will always be the case? Firefox was fine in debian until 2006.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#47

Post by isbadawi » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

yudlejoza wrote: post #43

As a C developer, after getting sick and tired of hearing about Rust everywhere, I decided to do a bit of assessment in terms of code-size complexity. I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust. I have never seen grep source code. I told myself, if I download ripgrep-on-Rust and grep-on-C and find out that ripgrep is doing all it's doing in one-tenth the size of grep so…

ripgrep isn't a 1:1 rewrite of grep. It's a different program.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#48

Post by FreeFull » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

mssundaram wrote: post #25

A win for Rust for sure, but it also seems like a loss for Mozilla.

Mozilla has brought this on themselves. I just hope that Firefox itself will be able to stay on a productive path, somehow.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#49

Post by heavyset_go » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

manishsharan wrote: post #31

malwrar wrote: post #11

Awesome news! Rust is easily the best programming experience I've had--the language feels incredibly well thought out, common tooling like doc generation and dependency management are included with the language, and the compiler takes full advantage of language features such that my editor's linter is able to detect most mistakes I make and the language itself guards me from doing anything obviously unsafe. I thought…

serious question : would you recommend Rust for CRUDdy type of web applications -- stuff where mostly you are firing off prepared statememts at a SQL db and then applying business logic to result set. This is what most J2EE apps do currently.

The ecosystems that support creating CRUD apps are more mature in other languages.

Re: Rust Foundation: Hello, World

#50

Post by teraflop » Mon, Feb 08, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

yudlejoza wrote: post #43

As a C developer, after getting sick and tired of hearing about Rust everywhere, I decided to do a bit of assessment in terms of code-size complexity. I heard of ripgrep, an amazing twenty-first century revolution that beats grep in the dust. I have never seen grep source code. I told myself, if I download ripgrep-on-Rust and grep-on-C and find out that ripgrep is doing all it's doing in one-tenth the size of grep so…

Maybe the fact that ripgrep contains more lines of code is related to the fact that it has more features, and not just about the language it's written in? https://beyondgrep.com/feature-comparison/

Also, it's kind of pointless to compare lines of code given that both projects get large amounts of their functionality from dependencies. For instance, the GNU grep repository doesn't actually contain any regex-matching code; that's all in gnulib.

EDIT: If you already knew that ripgrep had more features, and yet your immediate reaction was that you "can't take those guys and their language seriously", then your comment is straight-up trolling. Please don't do that here.