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Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

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Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#801

Post by capableweb »

kolinko wrote: post #783
mrb wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While away on vacation, I once sent $1000 in cold hard cash, on a Sunday, to an unbanked person in Los Angeles, in less than 1 hour, thanks to bitcoin and the recipient withdrawing it for cash at a Bitcoin ATM. There is not a single alternative service in the world that would have made this possible. If people thought a little beyond their personal use cases, they would understand the utility of Bitcoin/crypto for ma…

What you described is how a banking system in many countries works. I can send a wire transfer for free to any other person in Poland at 4am on saturday night, and they will get it instantly (some exceptions apply). I can even send them a direct code to withdraw a specific amount of money from most ATMs in the country, instantly and anonymously. (Could be to an unbanked person, but we don’t have those really - aside…

Great that it works like that in Poland. It doesn't work like that in most places in the rest of the world, and certainly not between X Y places in the world (for example, how long time would a US > Poland transfer take?).

What cryptocurrencies enables is border-less transfers, where geographic location doesn't matter anymore, as long as you have a internet connection.

> Sending money to other people wirelessly can, and will, be solved by centralised institutions

I wish I could be as optimistic as you. I have been living in three different countries for the last 20 years and heard that "instant wire transfers anywhere in the world" is coming for the last 20 years. Seems only Instant SEPA has been doing some actual work, but it still doesn't even cover 50% of the world.

And why wait for a centralized solution that might come 20 years in the future when you can use the decentralized solution that works today?

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#802

Post by mrb »

tiborsaas wrote: post #728
mrb wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While away on vacation, I once sent $1000 in cold hard cash, on a Sunday, to an unbanked person in Los Angeles, in less than 1 hour, thanks to bitcoin and the recipient withdrawing it for cash at a Bitcoin ATM. There is not a single alternative service in the world that would have made this possible. If people thought a little beyond their personal use cases, they would understand the utility of Bitcoin/crypto for ma…

> There is not a single alternative service in the world that would have made this possible. I work at TransferWise so I know that 34% of our transactions are now instant (less than 20 sec).

It's impossible for 2 new unverified users to sign up to your service and send money instantly within 1 hour, cash in hand. Lengthy verification steps, etc. So TW wouldn't have worked in our urgent situation.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#803

Post by mrb »

kolinko wrote: post #783
mrb wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While away on vacation, I once sent $1000 in cold hard cash, on a Sunday, to an unbanked person in Los Angeles, in less than 1 hour, thanks to bitcoin and the recipient withdrawing it for cash at a Bitcoin ATM. There is not a single alternative service in the world that would have made this possible. If people thought a little beyond their personal use cases, they would understand the utility of Bitcoin/crypto for ma…

What you described is how a banking system in many countries works. I can send a wire transfer for free to any other person in Poland at 4am on saturday night, and they will get it instantly (some exceptions apply). I can even send them a direct code to withdraw a specific amount of money from most ATMs in the country, instantly and anonymously. (Could be to an unbanked person, but we don’t have those really - aside…

«how a banking system in many countries works»

Recipient was unbanked (under severe financial hardship)

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#804

Post by [deleted] »

pelliphant wrote: post #534
sireat wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many of us have been around crypto for a long time (meaning since 2010-2011) and have not seen any progress in positive terms. Most of crypto growth has been pure speculation/ crypto2crytpo related services/morally questionable uses. Positives * ... Sort of positive/sort of negative: Evading capital controls Being your own bank.. Big Negatives: * POW energy use - huge one * POS stakeholder issue * Hard to use for Joe…

What are the positive sides of "Evading capital controls"? Also, does POS here mean "piece of shit"?

[deleted]

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#805

Post by d23 »

BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #509
somedude895 wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> gold hoarding caused the economy to collapse in 1929 You have a source for that? > When people, businesses and banks start hording tokens instead of investing in building and maintaining the production capacity of consumables Central banks are pumping money into the economy at an incredible rate. There's no shortage of credit or liquidity anywhere.

It's possible that the central banks are going to save us this time. One of the problem of 1929 was that the central banks got in on the token hoarding and exacerbated the dangerous dynamics. I still find this move by Tesla somewhat ominous, this being the new roaring 20s and all.

> gold hoarding caused the economy to collapse in 1929

You have a source for that?

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#806

Post by capnorange »

EtienneK wrote: post #380

I love the idea of Bitcoin. But, as someone who's been working in banking for more than a decade - what problem does Bitcoin solve? Serious question; 'cause I'm failing to come up with a good answer. Edit: The closest I've come to answering this: To me Bitcoin is more a decentralized international payment protocol (such as SWIFT); not a store of value / currency. But I rarely see it being pitched in that way.

"It detaches property rights from the legal system and the monopoly on violence."

https://medium.com/@hasufly/bitcoin-and-the-promise-of-indep...

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#807

Post by skinnymuch »

gibbonsrcool wrote: post #425
afavour wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was forced to watch my government bungle a pandemic in the worst possible way and then asked to pay for it for decades. No I don’t think I will. That has very little to do with currency and everything to do with you not wanting to pay taxes. You may think that COVID response has been a catastrophic waste of money but if you'd lost your job would you have claimed the increased unemployment benefits? I suspect the…

Why should one want to pay taxes on debt that was a result of stupidity?

No one wants to pay taxes on half of what taxes are being spent on. Every one wants it spent on what they prefer. Your comment doesn’t change that.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#808

Post by charcircuit »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #650
mrb wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While away on vacation, I once sent $1000 in cold hard cash, on a Sunday, to an unbanked person in Los Angeles, in less than 1 hour, thanks to bitcoin and the recipient withdrawing it for cash at a Bitcoin ATM. There is not a single alternative service in the world that would have made this possible. If people thought a little beyond their personal use cases, they would understand the utility of Bitcoin/crypto for ma…

I'm not claiming that a low-latency, no-borders, truly international digital currency is a bad thing. The main issue with Bitcoin is a complete lack of oversight. As a currency it's dreadful, suffering from tens of thousands of percent in deflation (= value increased relative to the cost of goods). As a trade product it's terrible, suffering from a lack of oversight from e.g. the SEC, opening it up to price manipulat…

>the SEC

The SEC only deals with securities. Bitcoin is not a security.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#809

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

billylindeman wrote: post #725
afavour wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was forced to watch my government bungle a pandemic in the worst possible way and then asked to pay for it for decades. No I don’t think I will. That has very little to do with currency and everything to do with you not wanting to pay taxes. You may think that COVID response has been a catastrophic waste of money but if you'd lost your job would you have claimed the increased unemployment benefits? I suspect the…

It absolutely IS about currency. They're printing money to pay for shit they can't afford. That is in ADDITION to the taxes that will be levied. Big government spending is absolutely a waste of economic resources, and will make the situation worse. The REAL problem is that most americans don't have enough money saved to take care of themselves during hard times. Why might that be? The FED's influence has resulted in…

>That is in ADDITION to the taxes that will be levied.

Or inflation will be used to reduce inequalities now that taxes have been made unacceptable by the rich (who wouldn't pay taxes). It's more a replacement than a sum.

Elected officials don't have much of a a choice when the economy goes to trash and the poor becoming poorer to a point where violence becomes a good solution for the poor to have some control over the economy (who should serve society and not the other way around).

> The REAL problem is that most americans don't have enough money saved to take care of themselves during hard times. Why might that be?

Because they already went through economic crises than got them near bankruptcy?

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#810

Post by mrb »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #540
mrb wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While away on vacation, I once sent $1000 in cold hard cash, on a Sunday, to an unbanked person in Los Angeles, in less than 1 hour, thanks to bitcoin and the recipient withdrawing it for cash at a Bitcoin ATM. There is not a single alternative service in the world that would have made this possible. If people thought a little beyond their personal use cases, they would understand the utility of Bitcoin/crypto for ma…

Western Union has been doing this for > 150 years.

Recipient was at the time banned from WU
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