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Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

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Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#781

I don't understand all the Crypto hate on this site. Since when have hackers become the luddites to new ways of finance?

What do you expect? A bunch of kool-aid drinkers? Good hackers have a healthy skepticism to most things. Sign of intelligent thinking to ask questions.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#782

This comment is unlikely to win me many friends here, but it is worth considering that while Bitcoin is, nominally at least, decentralized and free from government control, internet access is not. A simple glance at the trend of governments to partially or to fully shut down internet services to certain areas in times of unrest or mass protest means, in the case of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies requiring collect…

Kinda solved https://www.wired.com/story/cypherpunks-bitcoin-ham-radio/

Yes, ham radio has sufficient throughout for Bitcoin because very few people actually transact on the blockchain. If people actually ever used Bitcoin, ham radio would be useless.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#783
post #489

Bitcoin is a mystery to me. Somehow it's hailed as revolutionising the economy, by replacing currency with a worse kind of currency. It feels like this is where all the "how to get rich quick" book writers and other hustle bros went and created one giant financial pyramid, which works in quite simple way: - buy bitcoin - tell everyone around how revolutionary it is, so they buy it and what you holding increases in va…

While away on vacation, I once sent $1000 in cold hard cash, on a Sunday, to an unbanked person in Los Angeles, in less than 1 hour, thanks to bitcoin and the recipient withdrawing it for cash at a Bitcoin ATM. There is not a single alternative service in the world that would have made this possible. If people thought a little beyond their personal use cases, they would understand the utility of Bitcoin/crypto for ma…

What you described is how a banking system in many countries works.

I can send a wire transfer for free to any other person in Poland at 4am on saturday night, and they will get it instantly (some exceptions apply).

I can even send them a direct code to withdraw a specific amount of money from most ATMs in the country, instantly and anonymously. (Could be to an unbanked person, but we don’t have those really - aside from some very senior citizens).

What you described is not so much a flaw in the banking system in general, but in the US banking system specifically.

Crypto has a ton of awesome use-cases - DeFi is the most promising one. Sending money to other people wirelessly can, and will, be solved by centralised institutions.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#784

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me explain bitcoin in a way that hackers will understand. Bitcoin is javascript. Hackers don't like javascript. It's got a lot of terrible quirks. There are so many languages better than javascript. But that doesn't matter. Javascript is ubiquitous, and you can't avoid it. Bitcoin is the same. Either you accept it as the way things are and profit from it, or you keep pounding your head against the wall.

Yeah but Javascript can actually be used to create a blockchain or any number of applications. I bet SpaceX could land a Falcon-9 with Javascript if they wanted nightmare difficulty. Bitcoin's main purpose for everyone I know is to buy drugs and treat as an 'investment'.

You don't know any people from Venezuela I take it, or any countries experiencing hyper-inflation. And not to say that that is THE killer use-case, but it certainly is A use-case for Bitcoin.

Bitcoin started with essentially novelty and "collectibles" value, like baseball cards or celebrity signatures or fine art pieces, but doesn't depend on shifting interests or demand to justify its underlying technical/foundational values of decentralized trust.

The comparison to digital gold is apt, especially if you don't stumble on the red herring that gold has physical industrial/commercial applications beyond just being shiny-and-rare-and-has-history. But, physical gold has pitfalls too: https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/Mystery-of-2bn-of-l....

What is the economic value of being able to 100% prove via battle-tested cryptography, that you own the asset that you say you do? What is the value of the technology behind being able to do that? The token's value is simply a proxy for the technology. Bitcoin being a store of value doesn't mean that, a bunch of idiots keep convincing each other that it's more and more valuable; it really means that, the global economy recognizes that they'd rather have provable ownership over X amount of bitcoin, then some equivalent $Y amount of fiat.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#785
post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While away on vacation, I once sent $1000 in cold hard cash, on a Sunday, to an unbanked person in Los Angeles, in less than 1 hour, thanks to bitcoin and the recipient withdrawing it for cash at a Bitcoin ATM. There is not a single alternative service in the world that would have made this possible. If people thought a little beyond their personal use cases, they would understand the utility of Bitcoin/crypto for ma…

What you described is how a banking system in many countries works. I can send a wire transfer for free to any other person in Poland at 4am on saturday night, and they will get it instantly (some exceptions apply). I can even send them a direct code to withdraw a specific amount of money from most ATMs in the country, instantly and anonymously. (Could be to an unbanked person, but we don’t have those really - aside…

As far as i'm aware it's usually not the case in most countried.

In canada we have Interac Online that allows you to send money instantly to anyone in the country but when it comes to international transfer it's usually really slow. (3-10 days). Bitcoin allows tou to send that money anywhere almost instantly.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#786
To the people on HN who constantly try to talk about how stupid cryptocurrencies are, or how it's all a pyramid that's going to collapse, it's all stupid etc.

What do you know that Tesla doesn't know? If you could sit down with the board of Tesla and explain to them what they've missed, what would you tell them?

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#787
post #588
post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While away on vacation, I once sent $1000 in cold hard cash, on a Sunday, to an unbanked person in Los Angeles, in less than 1 hour, thanks to bitcoin and the recipient withdrawing it for cash at a Bitcoin ATM. There is not a single alternative service in the world that would have made this possible. If people thought a little beyond their personal use cases, they would understand the utility of Bitcoin/crypto for ma…

Do you really think this is a technical limitation of the current banking systems and a missing "feature"? Or is it the Bitcoin technology that "solves" this? The whole reason that it is not allowed to send money to an anonymous person is... Well don't actually know where to start explaining it. Anti money laundering? Counter-terrorism financing? Financial transaction reporting?

Yes, the ability to control the currency and who people send money to is powerful and can be used for good, but often isn't. Just look at Venezuela, Zimbabwe, or all the other nations that inflated their currency out of existence or used it to fund genocides.

Perhaps nations would be less likely/able to do things like this if citizens were able to flee without leaving behind their life savings.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#788
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will, that’s when you buy. This happens every single time, whether it’s $250 to $70 or $12,000 to $5,000 or $40,000 to $????... ride the wave.

The people who bought at <$20,000 are already in 100% profit so a great time to take some off the table if a crash were to come. (Which I think will happen)

> are already in 100% profit

If they didn't cash out, there are not profit. Bitcoin could take a 80% dump within an hour and most people would be screwed.

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#789

Aside from all environment and ethical concerns, can someone elaborate how bitcoin & other crypto affects global economy and especially wealth equality? Since bitcoin transactions are anonymous, what will happen to taxes?

Taxes wise for the US fiat -> crypto: nothing crypto -> crypto: capital gains crypto -> fiat: capital gains nothing -> crypto: income

Re: Tesla buys $1.5B in Bitcoin, may accept it as payment in the future

#790

Oh noes, if this starts a trend, becomes widespread, and businesses start hoarding crypto tokens instead of investing in building stuff, it could cause a great depression pretty much the same way gold hoarding caused the economy to collapse in 1929. When people, businesses and banks start hording tokens instead of investing in building and maintaining the production capacity of consumables, the ratio of value of toke…

Commodity money has existed for thousands of years. There is a much better explanation for the 1929 crash than "gold broke all of the sudden". In short:

The international gold standard did not collapse during the 1930’s because of its inner contradictions — as schools inculcate the idea into all students. The truth is that the victorious powers inadvertently caused the collapse of the gold standard (with a 13-year lag) by disallowing its clearing system, the international bill market, to reopen for business after the cessation of hostilities in 1918. [1]

[1] https://professorfekete.com/articles/AEFNewAustrianSchoolOfE...

This makes sense if you study the functioning of the bill of exchange, which is a form of commercial credit that solves the problem of workers wanting weekly wages for producing a consumer good that takes months to sell: https://professorfekete.com/articles/AEFMonEcon101Lecture5.p...

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