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The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

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Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#71

Post by zvrba »

ohduran wrote: post #2

Not an expert here but, IF a gay gene existed, wouldn't have it been evolved into extinction?

Interestingly, I've heard about many people who went from "straight", married with children to leaving their families because they've found out they're gay. I even knew one whose first sexual experiences were with women, and he decided he was gay later. In his "straight phase" he could have had fathered children if he weren't careful. Curiously, I've never heard about opposite cases (spontaneous [1] gay -> straight transition). Make of it what you want.

[1] Spontaneous = ignoring attempts to "cure" gay orientation.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#72

Post by praptak »

ohduran wrote: post #2

Not an expert here but, IF a gay gene existed, wouldn't have it been evolved into extinction?

The other posts cover possible reasons why being gay may be actually good for the utility function of a gene.

There is another hypothesis for why this hypothetical gene might not evolve into extinction. Being gay may just be a side effect of it, with some other benefits being the reason this gene stays in our gene pool.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#73

Post by mrfusion »

Genes aren’t a good way to explain most things. They’re more like LEGO blocks. It’s how the cells use and express the genes that matters.

So you want to look at regulatory regions of the genome, promoters, and even how and when the dna folds up to inactive large regions. That’s where all the action is.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#74

Post by rootusrootus »

red01 wrote: post #30
Kye wrote: post #3

A lot of the search for a gay gene seems trapped in an outdated understanding of sexuality as a binary proposition: "you're either A or B." How do you even begin to contemplate a study on sexuality once you understand it as highly varied and fluid? Same with gender. They're bimodal distributions at best . You can't just crop off the confounding valleys and call what you do with them good science.

To be fair the LGBT movement purposefully pushed that misconception because it was more convenient for civil rights purposes.

When you're trying to convince the majority to quit discriminating against you, then you push whatever evidence you've got. Convincing them that it's genetic, and therefore not a choice, is a prime goal.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#75

Post by btilly »

agravier wrote: post #36
ohduran wrote: post #2

Not an expert here but, IF a gay gene existed, wouldn't have it been evolved into extinction?

Depending on other conditions (environmental and genetic), a particular gene may not be expressed in the same manner (or at all). You can find simple examples in recessive alleles. The phenotype of such genes will only be expressed when both alleles are of a compatible type. Another striking example: Sickle cell disease will only be deadly if both alleles carry the unfortunate mutation. But the unhealthy allele is un…

The striking example that you gave is more striking than that. Having one allele actually brings protection from malaria. So the recessive is selected for..as long as not too many people have it.

That is why sickle-cell anemia mostly shows up in people whose ancestors came from places with a long history of malaria.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#76

Post by mrfusion »

readams wrote: post #53

It's unlikely there's a gene that codes for being gay. Homosexuality instead is better thought of as more like why men have nipples. Obviously the nipples are not useful to the reproductive success of men, but genetics and natural selection are messy and there's likely no easy path to not having them in men while maintaining their function in women. For homosexuality, the systems of sexual attraction in the brain nee…

Sexually antagonistic pleiotropy perhaps.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antagonistic_pleiotropy_hypo...

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#77

Post by hyperpape »

Bostonian wrote: post #22

"Ganna and his colleagues also used the analysis to estimate that up to 25% of sexual behaviour can be explained by genetics, with the rest influenced by environmental and cultural factors — a figure similar to the findings of smaller studies." An argument for gay rights has been that people are "born that way". That appears to be false. Does this suggest that it may be possible to shape the environment to reduce the…

The "born that way" argument was always a compromise/simplification.

The true argument is that gay relationships, regardless of cause, are just as worthwhile and life affirming as straight relationships.

But, if you're stubborn, and refuse to acknowledge that, "they're born this way" might temporarily get you to acknowledge the absurdity of your position. It feels cruel to condemn someone for something they can't control. But that's not much of an argument--I don't think pedophiles choose to be attracted to minors. The difference is that pedophilic relationships are harmful, not worthwhile and life-affirming.

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#78

Post by slaymaker1907 »

coding123 wrote: post #39

I'm curious if they instead focused on a simple neural net that is fed genes + gay/straight flag if the NN would actually successfully predict it.... in other words, NN's don't care about "finding" that specific gene, they kinda include everything and it "finds" the gene without actually pointing it out. That's very different from the human approach which is to try to find something specific. I mean compare it to blo…

The best you could probably do would be to match twins, so about 65%[1].

[1]: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8494487/

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#79

Post by dnissley »

readams wrote: post #53

It's unlikely there's a gene that codes for being gay. Homosexuality instead is better thought of as more like why men have nipples. Obviously the nipples are not useful to the reproductive success of men, but genetics and natural selection are messy and there's likely no easy path to not having them in men while maintaining their function in women. For homosexuality, the systems of sexual attraction in the brain nee…

I think this is called a Spandrel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spandrel_(biology)

Re: The largest study to date on the genetic basis of sexuality (2019)

#80

Post by t-writescode »

Kye wrote: post #3

A lot of the search for a gay gene seems trapped in an outdated understanding of sexuality as a binary proposition: "you're either A or B." How do you even begin to contemplate a study on sexuality once you understand it as highly varied and fluid? Same with gender. They're bimodal distributions at best . You can't just crop off the confounding valleys and call what you do with them good science.

Indeed. Many people on HN talking on this thread are forgetting bisexuality, demisexuality, etc. Even comments as simple as "you see a beautiful [x of opposite sex] and feel no attraction" miss a lot of vitals.
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