I just can't imagine that this has happened completely "without reason" as he states. The reason might be silly, erroneous (whether human or AI), or dumb, but it exists.
If Google has no procedure in place to investigate these bans on request, then Google is evil. But by the sound of this I get the feeling that this guy is leaving out some facts.
Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked
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Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked
#362Earlier quoted context omitted.
People at Google really do want to fix this... But it's a minefield of: * Legal stuff (eg. some algorithm detected child porn in his account, is an employee legally allowed to look at it to confirm the algorithm was correct? no.) * Internal Politics (eg. one team has found this account DoSing their service, while the account is perfectly normal in all other ways, but due to Googles systems being so complex a single-s…
Even if all of that is completely true, failing to engage in any form of communication with a business partner whose services you cut off without any notice is reprehensible.
Communication is one thing, but not having any appeals process other than hoping a social media post goes viral enough for Google to take action is ridiculous.
Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked
#363I just wish that regulation would step in and make behavior like this illegal for the corporate giants. It is definitely possible to limit the power of the TOS, and it's already done in some cases in Europe (certain common TOS clauses are just void and do nothing). One simple thing I'd really like to see is forbidding companies from terminating service without stating a reason, which seems like a really basic require…
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Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're not seeing the other side of the coin - the huge amount of spam and abuse that such systems correctly identify and remove. If every abuser requests those explanations (which they will) there will be far more spam going around the Internet. Just think about the army of "Facebook content moderators" who were a popular topic on HN recently due to the concerns over their mental health. (I am offering no solutions…
Perhaps the process should cost $100 or $500, so that actual spammers can’t use it Maybe they really just need to offer a paid account option with real support, since that has much better incentives
No need in charges.
Strong person identification via Passport or Bank. Limit those request per identified person or throttle them.
Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If every abuser requests those explanations (which they will) It's not a request, it's a requirement. If your account is suspended, you deserve an explanation. You should get one without having to request it. I'm not saying that companies shouldn't be able to suspend accounts temporarily. I'm simply saying that there needs to be a way to get your account unsuspended if you're innocent. The way it "works" now is tha…
For the record, they don't give away these explanations because such explanation would hint the spammer to what they should _not_ do next time, to avoid getting caught. Same as with anticheat software.
You don't have to tell them how you detected them but you can tell them what they did wrong. A lot of times when these cases come up there is nothing in the reason you got banned that would help you avoid the ban. It's purely to avoid any kind of accountability (if they say you got banned for a reason that is plainly not true because their algorithms suck)
Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You’d think that there’d be a “this person is high profile and any automated bans will cause a stink” flag on accounts What does high profile mean? I've heard of Leon Spinks, the boxer, but I've never heard of Andrew Spinks in my life until today. People with 5 digit Twitter follower counts are actually a dime a dozen. Even people who were obscure can become "high profile" for a day. That's how going viral works.
Surely the creator of a video game that's sold tens of millions of copies, who also has an on-going business relationship with your company passes the bar?
My point is that literally millions of people could be considered "high profile". Does (the recently deceased) Leon Spinks pass the bar? I could go on naming semi-famous people indefinitely, they all ought to pass this bar.
Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're not seeing the other side of the coin - the huge amount of spam and abuse that such systems correctly identify and remove. If every abuser requests those explanations (which they will) there will be far more spam going around the Internet. Just think about the army of "Facebook content moderators" who were a popular topic on HN recently due to the concerns over their mental health. (I am offering no solutions…
I think this is a convenient narrative for an abusive pattern of behavior by Google. The company is infamous for having non-existent customer service. It's not a matter of their AI having too many false positives, it's that when there is a false positive you have literally no recourse even if you're a well known business partner. Are we really going to believe that Google, one of the highest grossing companies in the…
Technically they do offer customer service if you pay them with their Google One product. I have phone numbers and human access very quickly, because I pay for it.
Although obviously if they banned me, I wouldn't have access to my direct support line anymore.
Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked
#368It's painfully clear at this point that we need a consumer "bill of rights" to protect us from these giant tech companies. At the very least, companies must be legally required to present you in writing with the so-called violation of terms they're accusing you of, evidence of the violation, and a phone # or other immediate contact so that you can dispute the accusations. It's insane that these basic legal rights don…
You're not seeing the other side of the coin - the huge amount of spam and abuse that such systems correctly identify and remove. If every abuser requests those explanations (which they will) there will be far more spam going around the Internet. Just think about the army of "Facebook content moderators" who were a popular topic on HN recently due to the concerns over their mental health. (I am offering no solutions…
So what is the proper Blackstone's ratio for you in these situation?
Is 1000 innocents ok to punish as long as 1 spam message is stopped?
Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked
#369It's painfully clear at this point that we need a consumer "bill of rights" to protect us from these giant tech companies. At the very least, companies must be legally required to present you in writing with the so-called violation of terms they're accusing you of, evidence of the violation, and a phone # or other immediate contact so that you can dispute the accusations. It's insane that these basic legal rights don…
> It's painfully clear at this point that we need a consumer "bill of rights" to protect us from these giant tech companies
I get where you're going, but I think far more costly to them and advantageous for us is to simply show them that they are unnecessary.
If we can drop them so easily, they can't pull stuff like this anymore. It is possible to drop Google and Facebook.
They do this stuff because people _need_ them and they know that people won't just drop them en mass.
Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked
#370Earlier quoted context omitted.
Surely the creator of a video game that's sold tens of millions of copies, who also has an on-going business relationship with your company passes the bar?
My point is that literally millions of people could be considered "high profile". Does (the recently deceased) Leon Spinks pass the bar? I could go on naming semi-famous people indefinitely, they all ought to pass this bar.
I agree that it's a trickier line to draw than I initially considered. However, there are only ~200 developers building games for Google Stadia. If Google cannot guarantee it won't cut any of them off at a moment's notice, with — seemingly — no right to appeal, then I think that bodes very badly for the ongoing viability of Stadia.