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Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

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Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#331

Post by jwr »

p410n3 wrote: post #9

This happens again and again. I have had that happen to my twitter account. I see this regulary on HN. My suspicion is that this is mostly happening because platforms that big like google or twitter rely very heavily on machine learning and other AI related technology to ban people. Because honestly, the amount of spam and abuse that are likely happening on these platforms has to be mind boggling high. So I get why t…

These companies are maximizing their margins at our expense.

> "the amount of spam and abuse that are likely happening on these platforms has to be mind boggling high"

That is true, but the amount of money these platforms are making is mind bogglingly high, too. It's just that they decided that they will use low-cost automated methods in order to maximize margins. And as long as we all accept this, it's a good decision: more money!

But it is absolutely possible to do these things right, it just costs more.

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#332

Post by lou1306 »

deadmutex wrote: post #75
spicyramen wrote: post #51

Hey Google here is a feature: account reputation, anyone doing business with you, has that flag enabled and human reviewers will be supporting them

> anyone doing business with you If they did this, how would you prevent people from saying that is unfair, or making it seem like it is pay to play, or something like that? Disclaimer: Work at Google (far from this space); opinions are my own.

It is unfair from a consumer standpoint, but at least it would avoid Google's self-dug grave from getting deeper.

From a B2B standpoint, it's just the name of the game. If a partner business is a strategic asset, you fast-track them. Imagine an advertising firm treating a multi-national corporation at the same (crappy) level as a small, family-owned company. Or, imagine Microsoft treating the US government and an ordinary Windows user alike. That's bonkers, and yet it's an apt description of how Google does business right now.

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#333

Post by AshamedCaptain »

_qulr wrote: post #305
anthony_r wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not seeing the other side of the coin - the huge amount of spam and abuse that such systems correctly identify and remove. If every abuser requests those explanations (which they will) there will be far more spam going around the Internet. Just think about the army of "Facebook content moderators" who were a popular topic on HN recently due to the concerns over their mental health. (I am offering no solutions…

> If every abuser requests those explanations (which they will) It's not a request, it's a requirement. If your account is suspended, you deserve an explanation. You should get one without having to request it. I'm not saying that companies shouldn't be able to suspend accounts temporarily. I'm simply saying that there needs to be a way to get your account unsuspended if you're innocent. The way it "works" now is tha…

For the record, they don't give away these explanations because such explanation would hint the spammer to what they should _not_ do next time, to avoid getting caught. Same as with anticheat software.

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#334

Post by ForHackernews »

p410n3 wrote: post #9

This happens again and again. I have had that happen to my twitter account. I see this regulary on HN. My suspicion is that this is mostly happening because platforms that big like google or twitter rely very heavily on machine learning and other AI related technology to ban people. Because honestly, the amount of spam and abuse that are likely happening on these platforms has to be mind boggling high. So I get why t…

> Why would they continue like that. Isn't there one single PR person at Google?

Does bad PR actually cost Google money? I'm not sure it does.

A bunch of advertisers claimed they were going to boycott Facebook, but they didn't stick with it, and it didn't meaningfully impact FB revenue.

I think the only think that will really dent Google at this point is privacy legislation, so the only PR they're worried about it is upsetting legislators -- not upsetting game devs.

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#335

Post by paulsutter »

anthony_r wrote: post #301
_qulr wrote: post #285

It's painfully clear at this point that we need a consumer "bill of rights" to protect us from these giant tech companies. At the very least, companies must be legally required to present you in writing with the so-called violation of terms they're accusing you of, evidence of the violation, and a phone # or other immediate contact so that you can dispute the accusations. It's insane that these basic legal rights don…

You're not seeing the other side of the coin - the huge amount of spam and abuse that such systems correctly identify and remove. If every abuser requests those explanations (which they will) there will be far more spam going around the Internet. Just think about the army of "Facebook content moderators" who were a popular topic on HN recently due to the concerns over their mental health. (I am offering no solutions…

Perhaps the process should cost $100 or $500, so that actual spammers can’t use it

Maybe they really just need to offer a paid account option with real support, since that has much better incentives

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#336

Post by jusssi »

andruby wrote: post #207
londons_explore wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People at Google really do want to fix this... But it's a minefield of: * Legal stuff (eg. some algorithm detected child porn in his account, is an employee legally allowed to look at it to confirm the algorithm was correct? no.) * Internal Politics (eg. one team has found this account DoSing their service, while the account is perfectly normal in all other ways, but due to Googles systems being so complex a single-s…

> due to Googles systems being so complex a single-service ban is very hard to implement Now that sounds like a technical problem that could be solved!

A GSuite admin can set domain-wide policy and per-user exceptions on what Google services the GSuite domain users can use.

Of course, there's some stuff you can disable that completely breaks how you'd expect e.g. Android integration to work with that account.

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#337

Post by lou1306 »

amelius wrote: post #318
p410n3 wrote: post #9

This happens again and again. I have had that happen to my twitter account. I see this regulary on HN. My suspicion is that this is mostly happening because platforms that big like google or twitter rely very heavily on machine learning and other AI related technology to ban people. Because honestly, the amount of spam and abuse that are likely happening on these platforms has to be mind boggling high. So I get why t…

> Because honestly, the amount of spam and abuse that are likely happening on these platforms has to be mind boggling high. So hire more people. You can't argue that you can't do your work properly because your AI is not yet up to the task.

Agree. I find it odd that so many people bring up this argument, like these companies aren't sitting on piles of cash that could be invested in systemic, human-in-the-loop improvements. (Ok, maybe except Twitter)

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#338

Post by _qulr »

AshamedCaptain wrote: post #333
_qulr wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If every abuser requests those explanations (which they will) It's not a request, it's a requirement. If your account is suspended, you deserve an explanation. You should get one without having to request it. I'm not saying that companies shouldn't be able to suspend accounts temporarily. I'm simply saying that there needs to be a way to get your account unsuspended if you're innocent. The way it "works" now is tha…

For the record, they don't give away these explanations because such explanation would hint the spammer to what they should _not_ do next time, to avoid getting caught. Same as with anticheat software.

> they don't give away these explanations because such explanation would hint the spammer to what they should _not_ do next time

We've heard this excuse countless times, but it's simply not acceptable. The foundation of our legal system is that it's better to let a criminal go than to punish an innocent person. How many innocents have to get caught in the crossfire before we start protecting them?

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#339

Post by jeegsy »

_pmf_ wrote: post #323
anthony_r wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not seeing the other side of the coin - the huge amount of spam and abuse that such systems correctly identify and remove. If every abuser requests those explanations (which they will) there will be far more spam going around the Internet. Just think about the army of "Facebook content moderators" who were a popular topic on HN recently due to the concerns over their mental health. (I am offering no solutions…

> the huge amount of spam and abuse that such systems correctly identify and remove. Maybe allowing single service providers to capture several billions of users is the problem here.

Ding Ding Ding!!!

Re: Terraria on Stadia cancelled after developer's Google account gets locked

#340

Post by arkitaip »

perryizgr8 wrote: post #281
deanc wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. My Adsense account was banned almost 9 years ago. I followed their appeals process, gave all the information required, and received automated responses every time. I repeatedly appealed over the last 9 years, receiving the automated rejections every time, until finally a few weeks ago for some reason they approved the appeal and my account was reinstated :shrugs:

The system works! Just takes about a decade.

That's how long it takes to train the machine learning model.
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