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What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

savingjournalism.substack.com

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Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#171

Post by bordercases »

hef19898 wrote: post #166
tacitusarc wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is changing the meaning of the word left, and then redefining Democrat as centrist, which is just incorrect.

Depends on where you are from. In most, if not all, western democracies the Democrats pass as centrist. People like Bernie pass as slightly left of center in Germany for example. And passes as left parties over here would considered full-blown communist in the US.

If we're still talking about US news outlets being mistrusted by American citizens subscribing to US political parties, this comparison is irrelevant.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#172

Post by GoblinSlayer »

notimetorelax wrote: post #36
whoisstan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly I just had an unrelated discussion on goodreads about that. The first mentioned author of the NYT article is supposedly a cybersecurity expert. The article lacked any evidence and called the company russian and obscure, they edited that but it’s still on archive.org https://web.archive.org/web/20210106195835/https://www.nytim... I left a goodreads comment on the NYT authors latest cybersecurity book cal…

This makes me wonder, 3 branches of government exist to balance each other out. Journalism stands on its own, what’s the counter balance to journalism?

Critical thought. Other journalists and free speech can be censored by private companies that have no obligation to follow any due process. During information war critical thought is the most important asset, without which you're as good as illiterate.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#173

Post by concordDance »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #159
notimetorelax wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes me wonder, 3 branches of government exist to balance each other out. Journalism stands on its own, what’s the counter balance to journalism?

If you’re in the US, or any country with comparable speech/press protection: the same rights that give them protection to publish. I know it’s unpopular here but social consequences punishing bad press behavior are effective, just like punishing bad politician or famous people behavior. This is sometimes paraphrased as “vote with your feet” or “vote with your wallet”, but lately it’s been maligned as “cancel culture”…

I thought cancel culture was about trying to get individuals fired for things unrelated to their work?

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#174

Post by Doctor_Fegg »

hnburnsy wrote: post #41

If you are student of grammar and journalism, do your self a favor and follow @nyttypos. I was stunned by the large number of mistakes that professional journalists make, that their editors miss, and that they refuse to correct. Here is an article about @nyttypos and his/her obsession... https://www.theringer.com/2020/8/18/21372181/nytimes-typo-tw...

This comment is a prime example of Muphry’s Law (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry's_law).

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#175

Post by concordDance »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #101
confidantlake wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened in the last 8 years? In 2003 there was the war in Iraq. The fallout from that was probably the lowest trust I had in journalism at any point in my life. I can't recall any significant events in the past 8 years that are even close to that failure.

Donald Trump happened in the last 8 years. He did two major things. First, he relentlessly attacked the media ("fake news") and regularly called them out on false or misleading stories. (Then the media regularly complained about him eroding their credibility, without admitting that his criticisms were often valid.) Second, he was incredibly good at manipulation. His signature move was to tell a big fat lie about an i…

I really wish Trump hadn't made attacking fake news become associated with Trumpism. Makes it much harder for people to fight back against fake news without losing all credibility due to the association.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#176

Post by qPM9l3XJrF »

ardy42 wrote: post #138

What exactly is the "Save Journalism Committee," and what's it's agenda? The link "What is the Save Journalism Commitee" at the bottom of their pages brings you to this nothingburger: https://savingjournalism.substack.com/about , https://archive.is/pY8rd . The author's Quora profile describes him as a "Messaging Consultant" ( https://www.quora.com/profile/Jeremy-Arnold-4 , https://archive.is/ch3uz ), which sounds lik…

From his Quora profile:

"In support of making the internet less wrong, I happily encourage and reward all corrections (details and past examples here)."

Last I checked, major American newspapers barely run corrections anymore.

Anyway I've watched Jeremy Arnold do this project for a while and I really do believe his heart is in the right place.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#177

Post by EvilEy3 »

concordDance wrote: post #173
eyelidlessness wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re in the US, or any country with comparable speech/press protection: the same rights that give them protection to publish. I know it’s unpopular here but social consequences punishing bad press behavior are effective, just like punishing bad politician or famous people behavior. This is sometimes paraphrased as “vote with your feet” or “vote with your wallet”, but lately it’s been maligned as “cancel culture”…

I thought cancel culture was about trying to get individuals fired for things unrelated to their work?

It's evolving. Cancer now wants everyone cancelled.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#179

Post by [deleted] »

unishark wrote: post #108
aksss wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It surprised you that MSNBC, NYT, and NPR have primarily left-leaning audiences? Their coverage leans left like Fox News leans right, particularly MSNBC. If you asked the surveyed Republicans how much they trust Fox News specifically , I’m sure the stats would be a mirror image. Similarly, democrats trust a news industry which, outlet-for-outlet, is more aligned with what they want to hear. After all, it’s never “our…

> After all, it’s never “our” news we mistrust, it’s the other guys! You imply this is some kind of hypocrisy or other character flaw, but this will always be true when there's uncertainty. If someone holds the same prior beliefs as you, it is rational to trust them more. Otherwise you would be assuming your own beliefs are wrong which makes no sense by definition. Of course media outlets tend to go beyond just filli…

[deleted]

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#180

Post by GoblinSlayer »

ViViDboarder wrote: post #58
denimnerd42 wrote: post #4

I wish the NYT would clarify or retract this piece/headline https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/06/us/politics/russia-cyber-... > Widely Used Software Company May Be Entry Point for Huge U.S. Hacking > Russian hackers may have piggybacked on a tool developed by JetBrains, which is based in the Czech Republic, to gain access to federal government and private sector systems in the United States. My company has banned Jetbr…

Out of curiosity, what would you want to see clarified? They said that it “may” be an entry point for the SW hack and, according to some National Security folks, it is being investigated. Is there reason to believe this is incorrect in some way? It may be premature and amount to nothing if Team City had nothing to do with the breach, but it doesn’t appear to be misleading or false. If it was, I’d imagine JetBrains wo…

Readers interpret the article with prejudice, the resulting understanding is what needs to be clarified.
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