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The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

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Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#251
post #82

I usually don't read articles like this, but it was so well written that I was sort of sucked into it. What was most interesting to me was not the various controversies about body aesthetics or even health consequences. What stood out to me was the author's description in the early parts of the article of how much she seemed to crave the approval of strangers, especially men. It was thought provoking and I'm still pr…

Right. Who would count their karma points here on Hacker News and make a big deal about how many strangers anonymously clicked on the up arrow next to their post?

I actually know such person. That is exactly what happened - karma was supposed to be proxy for social status and mine was lower so I was supposedly not allowed to argue against that person.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking in effective time, it is obviously more than 60 minutes, I would say rather 160 minutes in the beginning and then getter lower with experience and getting used to it. Resistance training is great, but let's not oversell it to others! A beginner not only needs to buy stuff (or commute to/from the gym) and create their plan and schedule it, they also need to account for spending extra time to correct their pos…

Nope 60 minutes as a beginner sounds about right with correcting posture and whatnot. Once I was familiar with it that dropped right down. Starting Strength is a very minimal program. Obviously no one is going to account for commute in how long a program takes. Some take hours to get to the nearest gym and others have home gyms.

Okay, maybe I did something terribly wrong as a beginner, but how did you make sure that your posture is good?

I used to do the exercise with little a no weight, record myself and double check for a longer time, until I found that I got used to the right movements.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#253
post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is not building muscles, in almost any body building competition, what comes with it is lowering body fat to unhealthy levels. Know well that something as simple as visible abdominal muscles already requires a body fat percentage that is lower than what is generally considered healthy.[0] One's musculature should not be “defined” for optimal health, — that requires dropping below healthy fat levels. Profess…

Nonsense, if your abs aren't visible as a man then you are carrying too much fat. What's unhealthy about body bulding, beyond the direct effects of the roids, is that these guys are like 300+ lbs. That and becoming severely dehydrated from taking diuretics before competitions.

This is what they call unrealistic expectations acquired from media.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I also found the article fascinating for the insights the author shows about her own thoughts and motivations. When I started working out at a gym, when I was in my early fifties, I barely knew that bodybuilding existed. But the gym I happened to join in Tokyo turned out to be popular with amateur bodybuilders, and I exercised near them most evenings for more than ten years. I became acquainted with quite a few of th…

I'm not a body builder, but I was a competitive powerlifter for awhile and still am a serious lifter now. In my experience, serious lifters of either gender (including myself) tend to have trauma from the past that got them into it and helped the hobby stick. Typically they were either fat, underweight, short, or weak; they felt looked down on; or some combination of these things, and they were angry about it. Altern…

Reminds me of the brother in "Leolo" [0]. Super dense movie right on the verge between tragic and funny.

[0] https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0104782/mediaviewer/rm2696479744/

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#255
post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know in person someone playing in the Polish highest division, not exactly a beer league. Eventually the club got rid of him for disciplinary reasons - the physios didn't approve him training his upper body too muscular that makes you less 'elastic'. He obviously didn't agree with them but by looking at his career trajectory they were probably right.

They're wrong. The reason that every athlete should train every part of their body is because it raises overall testosterone and promotes blood flow throughout the entire body, which speeds development and healing of the muscle groups that are predominantly used in whatever sport... e.g. I'm a sprinter, so I train my upper body as well because it helps my legs grow and heal faster.

Many competitive sports have requirements to be unbalanced for weight reasons.

E.g. pro cyclists have to avoid any upper body activities like swimming since they'll put on upper body mass that hurts their performance; the opposite is pro climbers where training quads will lower the performance since they'll grow extra leg mass that arms will have to lift.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#256
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About the Euronews link, I disagree with your conclusion. The mentioned laws are just red tape (for an explanation see my reply to pacaro here). The hard limits on BMI seem to come from industry self-regulation.

Let's assume that be the case. The politicians allow this nonsensical, pseudoscientific self-regulation instead of demanding that they switch to b.f.p. , because they know well that it would outlaw body builders, which they do not want, despite their being as unhealthy. The industry came up with this method, of course, to allow bodybuilders to continue, and only having to cull the the hyperthin. It's a nice unspoken…

Nah. Bodybuilders are fat by mbi. BMI is or was used also in context that where it literally harmed bodybuilders - by BMI they are fat.

Politicians doing these decisions dont go too deep. BMI is widely know, easy to calculate metric everybody knows. And that is all there is to it.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#257
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... really? You've never wanted to be attractive to whatever gender you're attracted to? I find it surprising that this can be "totally foreign" to any human that's not asexual. Being the most attractive version of yourself that you can be isn't just about sex, either. It really does open doors socially and economically. Right or wrong, people enjoy the company of people who put thought and effort into their appearan…

Of course I have. But that's not what she described. From what I read it was a near obsession, consuming her thoughts on a near constant basis. THAT is what I found foreign. And of course being more attractive makes life easier. Did I say even once that it did not? That's blatantly obvious. But do you really actively think about if strangers that you happen pass on the street or in a store find you hot? This is what…

I think that's one of the points of the article, or at least an observation. Bodybuilding made her more attractive to men, then as she excelled, made her much less attractive to them. The world changed around her as she changed appearance, as men held open the door for her or ignored her, corresponding to her attractiveness. Bodybuilding for women was for years obsessed with making sure the competitors preserved their femininity, as if building too much muscle takes that away from a women. One of her idol (Bev Francis)'s major contributions to the field were ignored by the gym friend, because he viewed Francis as being too unattractive to have sex with, and that was all he cared about.

Beyond that, I think it's extraordinarily hard to not care what strangers think of you. Not a particular stranger, but just strangers as a whole. Depending on where you live (e.g.catcalling is more common in particular cultures or more metro areas), you can have people commenting on your appearance every day. After years of that, of course you start noticing the comments being more or less nice, or more or less frequent, and I imagine it's easy to obsess over it. It should be pointed out though that it's clear the author doesn't enjoy obsessing over how men think of her - I imagine these are more intrusive thoughts.

I enjoyed a feminist lit book with similar themes of a character who embraced being 'unf*ckable' called "Dietland". The 2nd half of the book goes off the rails but the first half was thought-provoking to me, for anyone who might be interested.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#258
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except for winning competitions, is there any natural advantage of bodybuilding for both men and women? For the 'extreme' of what most competitors go through? Probably not. But resistance/strength training more generally is probably beneficial: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_training For women especially, as they age about one-third suffer from osteoporosis, and lifting (heavy!) weights forces body adapti…

I'd strongly second resistance training, it doesn't really take that much time either. A simple program like Starting Strength will have you train for not much more than 60 minutes three days a week and you'll make significant strength gains up to 1.5x body weight easily.

yeah.. 60-90 min workout, but probably a minimum 30-40min recovery time to feel okay afterwards, plus extended sleep! You really tend to sleep longer.. You want that 8 hour sleep, if you are actually working with weights about 3-4 times a week. Compare that with 30-40mins of medium-to-intensive cardio.. Massive cortisol peaks after intense workout sessions, etc etc..

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#259
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think so. My understanding is that being overweight always makes some health problems more likely, especially long-term. Even if it's muscle. And that's not even considering the effects of taking excessive growth hormones / steroids etc common to body building. Being fit is something else altogether, and produces better health outcomes AIUI.

It's really hard to become overweight from muscle without steroids.

Obese, maybe, but not overweight. Overweight at 5’10” is around 170 lbs. That’s not even close to steroid territory.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#260
post #75
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That does not give much idea of what her bikiny look was like. I was curious about that too, it is very focus of article, but it is described be words only and hard to imagine.

I feel like what exactly she looked like wasn't the takeaway from the discussion for me, to be honest.

Not the takeaway, but I definitely wanted to know what she is talking about when she was describing her body. I try to google her, but no luck.
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