The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding • Hacker News Board

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#101

Post by Blikkentrekker » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

ardit33 wrote: post #78

actuator wrote: post #71

Except for winning competitions, is there any natural advantage of bodybuilding for both men and women? For both, for advantage in most sports and attractiveness the typical calisthenics physique, sort of gymnast/football(soccer) one seems like the ideal one to me, yet a lot of people seem to be obsessed with getting overly buff.

By bodybuilding, you probably mean steroid-fueled muscle building. Most natural body-building will never reach that level. On the other way, there is plenty of good health reasons to train with weights, and build a good/solid muscle mass. It also improves a lot of other aspects in your life (social). So, weight-training, bodybuilding - lite is great. Steroid ladden/extreme body building one is probably not healthy.

The issue is not building muscles, in almost any body building competition, what comes with it is lowering body fat to unhealthy levels.

Know well that something as simple as visible abdominal muscles already requires a body fat percentage that is lower than what is generally considered healthy.[0]

One's musculature should not be “defined” for optimal health, — that requires dropping below healthy fat levels.

Professional body builders go far beyond that, of course.

[0]: https://www.fatherly.com/health-science/how-to-get-six-pack-...

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#102

Post by roflc0ptic » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:30 PM UTC

rmah wrote: post #82

I usually don't read articles like this, but it was so well written that I was sort of sucked into it. What was most interesting to me was not the various controversies about body aesthetics or even health consequences. What stood out to me was the author's description in the early parts of the article of how much she seemed to crave the approval of strangers, especially men. It was thought provoking and I'm still pr…

Since the pandemic started, my interactions with strangers of the opposite sex have been quite curtailed. Last week a vague acquaintance in my condo complex, 35 years my senior, stopped me and spent a good 30 seconds telling me how blue my eyes looked, and musing on how my outfit made them stand out especially. On the one hand, this is weirdly objectifying, and I kind of wish she had the slightest interest in who I am as a person - she’s one of those archetypal condo neighbors who mostly just goes around complaining about people. But on the other hand, I had the distinct thought, “Hot dang, Daniel. You’ve still got it.” This thought was steeped in irony, but at its kernel, there’s a stark emotional reality there. I’m even tolerably well adjusted.

Positive attention from strangers is a singularly terrible thing to hinge your wellbeing on, but man. It sure feels nice.

I would comment that many men seem use sex with women as a form of self esteem boosting. Like, if I fuck enough women, the emotional void inside of me will finally fill and I’ll know I’m worthy. Women do the attention seeking stuff more overtly, and they’re encouraged and allowed to display themselves as objects. men have a pretty similar set of emotional drives, just have different avenues for acting them out.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#103

Post by Blikkentrekker » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:31 PM UTC

hirundo wrote: post #52

simonbarker87 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BB is more an art than a sport, Steve Cook articulates this idea very well and is partly why he has moved more toward CrossFit and other activities. BB is primarily a competition with yourself for months and months with an expression of that work at the end that you hope is arbitrarily considered better than everyone else’s on stage by the judges (some of who may be trainers of other competitors on stage so good luck…

There is another response to this comment that is marked as dead within one minute of posting, and I'm trying to understand why. Here is the entire comment: > BB is more an art than a sport Well, the Mr. Olympias were some of the strongest men in history. Ronnie Coleman was doing leg press reps in the 2,300 pound range, and he admitted after retirement wishing that he had gone heavier. His dumbbell presses over 200 p…

To mark a comment as dead, only one user needs to flag it, I believe.

All it takes is one user to disagree enough. I've had upvoted comments flagged because there was one user who disagreed enough with it and it was about controversial issues.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#104

Post by tyingq » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #100

tyingq wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The only person on the Terminator movies sets who could lift the gatling gun was Arnold." The mini gun was an M134. Those weigh between 41 and 85 lbs, depending on the model variant. So, yeah, it was heavy, but not crazy heavy.

The M134 weighs 85lbs without ammunition , and the actor has to hold it out in front of them in an awkward position. 85lbs isn't a lot to lift or carry close to your chest, but it's a lot to hold out in front of you. Add in the need to carry/consume a prodigious amount of ammunition plus the recoil generated by the blanks, and it's a lot to deal with.

It's fairly obvious the movie scene has the M134 in a sling, so that he's not holding the whole thing up with his hands. When he starts walking, he only has one hand on it, near the rear of the gun.

Not disputing it's heavy and awkward. It's just not, to me, something you would cite as "only a really strong person could do it". You can find videos of pretty normal looking people firing it while it's held by a sling and their hands.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#105

Post by Blikkentrekker » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

rmah wrote: post #82

I usually don't read articles like this, but it was so well written that I was sort of sucked into it. What was most interesting to me was not the various controversies about body aesthetics or even health consequences. What stood out to me was the author's description in the early parts of the article of how much she seemed to crave the approval of strangers, especially men. It was thought provoking and I'm still pr…

> What was most interesting to me was not the various controversies about body aesthetics or even health consequences. What stood out to me was the author's description in the early parts of the article of how much she seemed to crave the approval of strangers, especially men.

We very much stand on opposite ends.

Fools exist, and many fools try to phrase their foolishness in terms of gender so to arouse the impression that they have an excuse.

Not a day goes by that I see a man attempt to excuse his foolishness by claiming it stems from his gender, his ethnicity, his religion, or anything else.

Needlessly craving the approval of others has nothing to do with gender, — some do so, and some do not.

> I can't help but feel a bit sad that so many go through their lives this way.

Foolish behavior exists everywhere in many forms. Some crave the approval of others to deluded paranoia of rejection; others wish to control their fellow man for no purpose but control itself; yet others are disproportionally afraid of very specific, uncommon things, yet ignore far more common dangers. — it is old news.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#106

Post by WalterBright » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:41 PM UTC

Jtsummers wrote: post #48

xirbeosbwo1234 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The world is growing fatter by the year so it does not seem as though people are too stressed about those conceptions of the body being thrown around. You are assuming that seeing an impressive physique would inspire people to attain it. That doesn't follow. Stress, depression, and low-self esteem can encourage overeating or a sedentary lifestyle. If someone believes they cannot compete with others, they may give up…

I wonder if the issue is cultural. We've, mostly, come to understand the impact of the common media representation of (often) hyper thin "perfect" women on women and girls in general, which is a lot of the reason for pushback into various (often ad) campaigns to present more typical female forms. But, like many things, there's a lag in the appreciation that men can experience the same thing and have similar reactions…

Just look at the evolution of male movie stars. A handsome face and slim figure used to be all that was required (Clark Gable, Paul Newman, Peter O'Toole). Today the men have to be jacked (Brad Pitt, Tom Cruise, George Clooney).

You can bet that to be a male star in Hollywood requires a personal trainer and a lot of work.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#107

Post by eredengrin » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:46 PM UTC

simonbarker87 wrote: post #33

jaegerpicker wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I understand that A LOT of strongman competitors are using steroids, it is entirely possible to compete without them. I know this because I've done it. Not at the international level but at a state level and placed very well. I've never taken a PED in my life. I was also a successful power lifter without PED's (550lbs bench press, 680lbs deadlift, and 725lbs squat at my peak). Those who don't compete don't unde…

I think mobility and staying injury free are probably more important at the level you were at than PEDs and an aspect that many people underestimate. My squat topped out at 300 simply because of old injuries and mobility limitations caused by them. Clearly strongmen on the international stage are using though.

Staying healthy and injury free is obviously important, but that's important at every single level. Also to be clear, a drug free 725 lb squat is very impressive, that's not something most people would be able to achieve even if they managed to stay injury free.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#108

Post by WalterBright » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:47 PM UTC

ameister14 wrote: post #47

bluecalm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Movie actors, fitness/underwear models, basically everyone on the cover of Men's Health or on a movie poster. Hell, very significant % of not so impressingly looking guys in your local gym are on steroids. Just Google for stats on steroid usage, estimate how many people go to a gym and think what it means. The mystery of Hollywood diet and training to lose 10kg of fat and to put 5kg of muscle in 60 days starts to mak…

Also age - it's actually possible to lose 10kg of fat and gain 5kg of muscle in 60 days without any testosterone or whatever boosters when you're 22. I have a very, very hard time believing you can do this at age 48-50, like Josh Brolin did to play Thanos.

When I was 20 and started lifting regularly, I put on a lot of muscle very fast. But I plateaued in about 6 months and was never able to go past that.

I didn't do any steriods, because a friend of mine went from "pillsbury doughboy" (his assessment) to very jacked in about 9 months. He used steroids, and was shocked to find he'd lost a couple inches in height. The doc told him it was the steroids, and even worse, he'd still lose the usual height when he aged (we all shrink as we age).

He was pretty bummed about it, but still became very popular with the ladies and was happy about that.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#109

Post by leshow » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

actuator wrote: post #71

Except for winning competitions, is there any natural advantage of bodybuilding for both men and women? For both, for advantage in most sports and attractiveness the typical calisthenics physique, sort of gymnast/football(soccer) one seems like the ideal one to me, yet a lot of people seem to be obsessed with getting overly buff.

Depends what you mean. Genetics plays a big role in competitive bodybuilding, but it plays a big role in any sport. Some people are genetically predisposed to put muscle on easier, some people genetically can be leaner, all of these things can help. At the upper levels of the sport you will see people that work very hard, have good genetics, and do lots of steroids.

Re: The Feminine Physique: On Women's Bodybuilding

#110

Post by bluecalm » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 10:51 PM UTC

gamblor956 wrote: post #50

CydeWeys wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people are quite aware of how prolific steroid usage in bodybuilding is. It's the movie actor physiques that people aren't as aware of.

Modern actors aren't as willing to sacrifice their health for muscle as their historical counterparts, especially because the lean look is preferred over the muscle-bound appearance of yesteryear. Thus, (with rare exceptions, like Christian Bale between The Machinist and Batman Begins ), what you see on screen today is hard-earned through hours a day in the gym, a very regimented diet, and hydration timing. Generally…

Just look at athletes before widespread steroid use. They have spent way more time training than actors and haven't looked like that even in sports that require dehydration like boxing.

That's exactly the problem with lying about steroids. It took a while for Arnold and his successors to admit that they were on 1000mg of test per week (plus other stuff of course; normal production of even high test men is below 100mg). Now people believe that yeah that bodybuilders are obviously juiced but physiques of elite athletes like soccer players or Hollywood actors are natural because they are smaller.

Remember, significant % of guys in your local gym are on juice. There are no doping controls in Hollywood. Testosterone won't kill you, it may even make your life better if you use it wisely. Would you take it if million dollars and fame were on the line? We know they take it because we know quite well how juiced up physiques look.

Besides, if someone who is not a professional athlete did 6 hours of serious training per day their body would give up sooner rather than later unless the recovery was "enhanced".

I don't condemn steroid use btw. I oppose widespread lying about it by the users and the media.