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What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

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101–110 of 266 posts

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#101

“ Most educated people believe that premier news outlets are inherently trustworthy.” Let’s stop right there. I think the last 8 years have shown the media to have lost significant amounts of public trust. I would say that most educated people inherently believe that the media should not automatically receive benefit of the doubt any longer.

What happened in the last 8 years? In 2003 there was the war in Iraq. The fallout from that was probably the lowest trust I had in journalism at any point in my life. I can't recall any significant events in the past 8 years that are even close to that failure.

Donald Trump happened in the last 8 years.

He did two major things.

First, he relentlessly attacked the media ("fake news") and regularly called them out on false or misleading stories. (Then the media regularly complained about him eroding their credibility, without admitting that his criticisms were often valid.)

Second, he was incredibly good at manipulation. His signature move was to tell a big fat lie about an issue that he wanted everybody talking about and where his general position was a popular one. The media hated this, because their choices were to let him get away with the lie or to start a conversation about the issue Trump wanted everybody talking about. But then they let their hatred of him become so transparent in their coverage that it undermined their credibility.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#103
post #44

“ Most educated people believe that premier news outlets are inherently trustworthy.” Let’s stop right there. I think the last 8 years have shown the media to have lost significant amounts of public trust. I would say that most educated people inherently believe that the media should not automatically receive benefit of the doubt any longer.

yeah it's a questionable claim for sure. This was a widely cited poll that asserted for the first time ever, the majority of Americans mistrust the mainstream media: https://www.axios.com/media-trust-crisis-2bf0ec1c-00c0-4901-... You'll note that trust varies widely by political party, with 18% of Republicans trusting the media vs 57% of Democrats. So the post in the op seems to equate "educated" with "democrat" perh…

> if the media outlets weren't increasingly becoming echo chambers.

This conclusion doesn't stand up. If the most popular network skews 93% republican, the alternatives are going to skew democrat regardless of how balanced they are.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#104

From the NYT article this blogger is upset about: “Mr. Trump himself has a small personal financial interest in Sanofi” “Mistake” he’s highlighting: “ The Sanofi portion of those holdings totalled a max of $1,485”. Sounds like accurate reporting. It wasn’t a huge sum of money, but it’s something, and it has the appearance of a conflict of interest. Edit: before you downvote me, please consider that politicians have h…

If someone worth a million dollars had a $1.50 stake in some venture, would that be worth mentioning?

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#105
post #79
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah it's a questionable claim for sure. This was a widely cited poll that asserted for the first time ever, the majority of Americans mistrust the mainstream media: https://www.axios.com/media-trust-crisis-2bf0ec1c-00c0-4901-... You'll note that trust varies widely by political party, with 18% of Republicans trusting the media vs 57% of Democrats. So the post in the op seems to equate "educated" with "democrat" perh…

It surprised you that MSNBC, NYT, and NPR have primarily left-leaning audiences? Their coverage leans left like Fox News leans right, particularly MSNBC. If you asked the surveyed Republicans how much they trust Fox News specifically , I’m sure the stats would be a mirror image. Similarly, democrats trust a news industry which, outlet-for-outlet, is more aligned with what they want to hear. After all, it’s never “our…

The same MSNBC that shat on AOC up till it was obvious she was going to be a progressive darling/favorite among a portion of MSNBC viewers, mocked Ron Paul repeatedly*, and have never covered Bernie Sanders close to the way they cover the Democratic establishment? MSNBC is nothing like the lefts Fox.

I completely agree with the point of hating the “other” guy’s news. I don’t think the vast majority of people distrust mainstream media. At least not their favorite outlets. NYT being beloved by a lot of my friends as one easy glaring example of typical highly educated well paid “liberal coastal elites”

* principled progressives/hard left have quite a bit in common with principled libertarians. Ron Paul being one. Not his son though. Chapo Traphouse for example can recognize Ron Paul being legit. Or Jon Stewart for a more mainstream example.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#106
post #79
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah it's a questionable claim for sure. This was a widely cited poll that asserted for the first time ever, the majority of Americans mistrust the mainstream media: https://www.axios.com/media-trust-crisis-2bf0ec1c-00c0-4901-... You'll note that trust varies widely by political party, with 18% of Republicans trusting the media vs 57% of Democrats. So the post in the op seems to equate "educated" with "democrat" perh…

It surprised you that MSNBC, NYT, and NPR have primarily left-leaning audiences? Their coverage leans left like Fox News leans right, particularly MSNBC. If you asked the surveyed Republicans how much they trust Fox News specifically , I’m sure the stats would be a mirror image. Similarly, democrats trust a news industry which, outlet-for-outlet, is more aligned with what they want to hear. After all, it’s never “our…

Smart people are actually more susceptible to biases. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newyorker.com/tech/frontal-...

Funny that I link to a New Yorker article. Fitting that it is from 2012.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#107
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media

I wish. It seems like social media largely serves to amplify biased or outright false journalism rather than give it balance.

I've seen plenty of cases where social media users accurately pointed out false or misleading journalism. But I suppose it depends on who you follow.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#108
post #79
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah it's a questionable claim for sure. This was a widely cited poll that asserted for the first time ever, the majority of Americans mistrust the mainstream media: https://www.axios.com/media-trust-crisis-2bf0ec1c-00c0-4901-... You'll note that trust varies widely by political party, with 18% of Republicans trusting the media vs 57% of Democrats. So the post in the op seems to equate "educated" with "democrat" perh…

It surprised you that MSNBC, NYT, and NPR have primarily left-leaning audiences? Their coverage leans left like Fox News leans right, particularly MSNBC. If you asked the surveyed Republicans how much they trust Fox News specifically , I’m sure the stats would be a mirror image. Similarly, democrats trust a news industry which, outlet-for-outlet, is more aligned with what they want to hear. After all, it’s never “our…

> After all, it’s never “our” news we mistrust, it’s the other guys!

You imply this is some kind of hypocrisy or other character flaw, but this will always be true when there's uncertainty. If someone holds the same prior beliefs as you, it is rational to trust them more. Otherwise you would be assuming your own beliefs are wrong which makes no sense by definition.

Of course media outlets tend to go beyond just filling in the blanks with biased guesses, but still people will be more forgiving if they seem "sensible" generally.

Re: What happens when the NYT and New Yorker make mistakes

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly I just had an unrelated discussion on goodreads about that. The first mentioned author of the NYT article is supposedly a cybersecurity expert. The article lacked any evidence and called the company russian and obscure, they edited that but it’s still on archive.org https://web.archive.org/web/20210106195835/https://www.nytim... I left a goodreads comment on the NYT authors latest cybersecurity book cal…

This makes me wonder, 3 branches of government exist to balance each other out. Journalism stands on its own, what’s the counter balance to journalism?

Once upon a time, ombudsman and journalist associations, and competitors. These days, those tend to all be the same, if they exist at all and aren't deemed "propaganda" or "fake news" or "disinformation" or similar.
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