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Neo-mc – a Midnight Commander fork with scripting and other features

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Re: Neo-mc – a Midnight Commander fork with scripting and other features

#41

Post by weaksauce »

ilaksh wrote: post #29
weaksauce wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you don't need to eschew model editing if you go to something like vscode... there's a great neovim plugin for vscode that gives you full vim in the background but also has a nicer vscode interface for the frontend.

I just suspect that people who advocate for modal editing and hjkl etc. think that those things are some grand UX secret that only real nerds know about. But really they are just artifacts of that particular historical circumstance. http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboard_hardware_and_key_choices.htm... "How did vi's mode switching idea came from? Back in 1970s, terminal screen are 80 columns by 24 lines. There's no real-tim…

> I just suspect that people who advocate for modal editing and hjkl etc. think that those things are some grand UX secret that only real nerds know about. But really they are just artifacts of that particular historical circumstance.

while it's true that it was born of historical necessity and the decisions for it were partly due to keyboard constraints and the other constraints, I disagree vehemently with the assertion that it's not a more efficient way to edit code. writing a screenplay? maybe not but programming? yes... especially in the context of a larger ide.

Re: Neo-mc – a Midnight Commander fork with scripting and other features

#42

Post by ilaksh »

theonemind wrote: post #35
ilaksh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It's just as easy to install micro as it is vim. sudo apt install micro or curl https://getmic.ro | bash Or just download the binary from github.

In my experience, that's not a real option in large, professional system admin settings. You wouldn't dare do that on a production machine without your change management process, and your team of admins won't care about installing micro on the thousands of machines you have to manage. You'd have to do a pull request to some kind of config management repo, and no one will agree your pet editor merits a deploy, and you…

You're right, of course it's impossible for anyone to approve installing a modern editor. How ignorant of me to suggest that. Everyone must use the editor and paradigm from the late 1970s. That's the only way professional system administrators and organizations can operate. No one has time to approve a pull request, no matter how outdated the editor is. We all learned it. Everyone else has to learn it also. Until the end of time. Amen.

Re: Neo-mc – a Midnight Commander fork with scripting and other features

#43

Post by ilaksh »

indigodaddy wrote: post #32
ilaksh wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It's just as easy to install micro as it is vim. sudo apt install micro or curl https://getmic.ro | bash Or just download the binary from github.

*nix system administration at many companies means that there are 1000s of RHEL or CentOS or older Solaris servers that you may very often need to edit a file if there is no config management (which is often the case). What all these servers will have to do that will be vi (or vim if you’re lucky). In most cases you can’t just go install some random other text editor that you happen to like better or be more proficie…

If you literally have to log into an ssh session on 1000s of machines running discontinued operating systems to manually edit files and can never install new tools for editing or anything else in those machines, then you deserve to go out of business.

Re: Neo-mc – a Midnight Commander fork with scripting and other features

#44

Post by ilaksh »

weaksauce wrote: post #41
ilaksh wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just suspect that people who advocate for modal editing and hjkl etc. think that those things are some grand UX secret that only real nerds know about. But really they are just artifacts of that particular historical circumstance. http://xahlee.info/kbd/keyboard_hardware_and_key_choices.htm... "How did vi's mode switching idea came from? Back in 1970s, terminal screen are 80 columns by 24 lines. There's no real-tim…

> I just suspect that people who advocate for modal editing and hjkl etc. think that those things are some grand UX secret that only real nerds know about. But really they are just artifacts of that particular historical circumstance. while it's true that it was born of historical necessity and the decisions for it were partly due to keyboard constraints and the other constraints, I disagree vehemently with the asser…

What makes it more efficient? Have there been any studies?

I disagree vehemently with your vehement disagreement. I just don't believe you are really saving that much time.

Again, saying that as someone who has used vim for 30 years. Among other editors.

Re: Neo-mc – a Midnight Commander fork with scripting and other features

#45

Post by ilaksh »

adamweld wrote: post #21
Pxtl wrote: post #19

I'm pretty new to heavy console-based Linux adminning - I just have a raspbian pi4 I'm using for a bunch of local services around my house, but I've gotten pretty comfy editing files and tweaking services and chmodding/chowning. However, I refuse to climb the learning cliff of Vi, but nano is... Okay at best? Is mcedit a good option? I'm still just doing everything from shell and nano.

If you're interested in becoming proficient text editing in the shell, I highly recommend just biting the bullet and learning the basics with vim. It's significantly less of a "cliff" than you'd expect. Just spend a few minutes running through the built-in tutorial (vimtutor), learn how to save and open files and move around the document, and set a few defaults in your config. Only about 30 minutes of effort will be…

30 minutes of effort will NOT make vim much easier to use than nano. That's ridiculous.

People, get your mind out of the 1970s and check out the micro editor.

Re: Neo-mc – a Midnight Commander fork with scripting and other features

#49

Post by Brian_K_White »

ilaksh wrote: post #42
theonemind wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, that's not a real option in large, professional system admin settings. You wouldn't dare do that on a production machine without your change management process, and your team of admins won't care about installing micro on the thousands of machines you have to manage. You'd have to do a pull request to some kind of config management repo, and no one will agree your pet editor merits a deploy, and you…

You're right, of course it's impossible for anyone to approve installing a modern editor. How ignorant of me to suggest that. Everyone must use the editor and paradigm from the late 1970s. That's the only way professional system administrators and organizations can operate. No one has time to approve a pull request, no matter how outdated the editor is. We all learned it. Everyone else has to learn it also. Until the…

"How ignorant of you." is exactly correct.
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