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How to lower the price of plant-based meat

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Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#631

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I honestly think that meat eaters are missing out when they eat these fake meat burgers (or beef burgers for that matter). You can put so many things between these buns some of these are really delicious. The variety of the veggie patties is amazing. When I order a veggie burger at a new restaurant, experiencing a new kind of patty is part of what makes burgers such a great food. Yes, I bet meat eaters say the same a…

> I honestly think that meat eaters are missing out when they eat these fake meat burgers Have you considered the possibility that it is you who are missing out on experiences by refusing to eat these vegetarian alternatives that taste like meat? "Oh, but real vegetarian food is so much better bla bla bla" Ignoring your knee-jerk reaction, have you actually tried the Impossible Burger or the Beyond Meat burger?

But nobody claims the experience the of eating ultra processed fake meat is BETTER than the real thing, do they? So how could us haters be “missing out”?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#632

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Calling it pseudo science is more in need of a citation than the original statement.

That's not how it works. If you're going to make a claim, support it.

The original claim was that meat has a good track record. Citation needed. NIH is brimming with publications to the contrary

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#633

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Maybe in that dystopian future where bacon doesn’t exist and I get very nostalgic for the carbonara of my childhood, sure. But that’s not quite what we’re discussing. Meat exists but some people want to go vegetarian without sacrificing anything. I suppose it’s pretty similar to the logic of people who want to lose weight without giving up sweets or soda, so they switch to aspartame versions.

> Meat exists but some people want to go vegetarian without sacrificing anything. Yes, how dare they?!? How can you call yourself a vegetarian without sacrificing anything? If anyone could be a vegetarian, there wouldn't be any moral superiority for the real vegetarians! Oh the horror!

I’m not vegetarian and it’s not about feeling superior.

I just happen to think fake meat and fake sweeteners are some of the most absurd things in modern society. I prefer food to be natural and unprocessed.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#634
post #627

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You’re not wrong but it’s beside the point. You don’t not make something because some people don’t want it.

I have no doubt they will be able to sell this to millions, I’m just saying that it’s a silly way to approach vegetarianism.

I guess I don’t understand what is silly about it? You or some group disagree with veggie burgers so they are silly?

People buying veggie burgers not going to take away other vegetarian foods in the process.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#635

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My point is that you shouldn’t expect the taste pr texture of meat if you’re not eating meat. Find vegetarian dishes you like instead. That’s what I did when I was a vegetarian. There is enough delicious vegetarian food to last you a lifetime.

> My point is that you shouldn’t expect the taste pr texture of meat if you’re not eating meat. This is completely ridiculous. From your comments, and from other obvious vegetarians/vegans in this thread, there's a weird sense of "sour grapes" combined with some sort of martyr complex. You're angry, because you've sacrificed to be vegetarian, and now terrible horrible meat-eating people like me can just swoop in, eat…

I’m not a vegetarian, I don’t think it’s wrong to eat meat. I think animal welfare in meat plants is horrendous but I don’t have the slightest issue with eating game.

I’m not encouraging people to eat more meat, in fact I think people eat way more meat than is healthy or reasonable.

The thing I have against fake meat is that it’s fake. And of course that it’s ultra processed. I prefer authentic, natural things, especially food.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#636
post #634

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no doubt they will be able to sell this to millions, I’m just saying that it’s a silly way to approach vegetarianism.

I guess I don’t understand what is silly about it? You or some group disagree with veggie burgers so they are silly? People buying veggie burgers not going to take away other vegetarian foods in the process.

I do think veggie burgers are kind of silly, but this is much sillier.

It’s fake, that’s what’s silly. A piece of pretend meat. And it’s especially silly to contort yourself to make a fake hamburger when you can just have a real arrabbiata. Or a delicious margherita.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#637

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Is anyone really confused by this though? To be honest, this sounds like the same controversy as people complaining about almond "milk". I just don't see a lot of evidence that people are regularly accidentally buying vegan food. Meat has been used to refer to non-animal products for a long time, particularly around nuts. I don't think that the definition has changed as much as people are using a commonly understood…

In my experience I think so, as I wrote on this thread. I work with some inner city folk and yes, they are convinced it is meat, just really bad meat. As with almond milk, they think it is milk with almond added to it (even when I pull out the container from the fridge and show the ingredient list).

So does that make them more or less inclined to eat if?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#638
post #375

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>Many of today's health epidemics are linked to a lack of fat and an excess of carbohydrates. I'm genuinely curious as to what you're getting at. When you say "excess of carbohydrates", are you referring specifically to processed foods or refined sugars? >Try finding fatty fruits and veggies: they were incredibly scarce for most the human population until the last 100 years. Maybe fatty fruits and veggies were scarce…

> I'm genuinely curious as to what you're getting at. When you say "excess of carbohydrates", are you referring specifically to processed foods or refined sugars? Long story short: many diseases are insulin linked. Insulin spikes highest by repeatedly eating carbohydrates throughout the day. Fiber decreases those spikes somewhat, but still doesn't compare at all to a fat-based diet or protein-based diet. There are wa…

Thanks for the response. I won't respond to every point because (1) that would be long and (2) I don't disagree with everything.

> Human evolution and mutation is slow. By looking at what our primary diet was up until recently, we can understand the macronutritional and micronutritional needs of our body and how a vegetarian/vegan diet may or may not influence that.

What was "our" primary diet though? Depending on where a group of humans lived, presumably the diet varied greatly. It seems to me that humans can successfully adapt to a wide variety of foods. I'm sure early humans ate meat, but vegetarianism and pescetarianism date back at least to antiquity. And just because a diet kept us alive doesn't mean it's "good" for us in the modern sense. Say, hypothetically, that a meat-heavy diet increases the risk of early death. That would be irrelevant in the context of natural selection if that age is much older than that of typical reproduction. Our "goals" are different now, too. Does a person sitting at a desk all day require the same nutritional profile as a hunter?

> The main thing currently under scrutiny is the bioavailability and toxins (for lack of better term) of plant-based foods compared to meat.

This is interesting to me and something I've been researching too. It does seem that a lot of the "toxins" can be mitigated by using very old cooking techniques: soaking beans/lentils, cooking vegetables (rather than eating raw), sprouting, fermenting. These techniques can weaken the plants' defense systems, so to speak.

> Avocados, coconuts, olives and nuts stand out here, being more fat heavy, but as most of the population does not have a history with these compared to animal products, it is difficult to say its all good. Beyond that, it is very difficult to get all your minerals and vitamins just on those alone, which isn't the case for meat and seafood, which results in either tapping into the remainder of the veggies and fruit, or tapping into animal products.

To be pedantic: meat doesn't really have a lot of vitamins, right? If you want a complete mix of vitamins and minerals, you would need to eat the kidney, liver, brain, heart, etc, which for whatever reason we don't really do anymore (in the US at least). For the average person (again in the US), this means you will need to step into non-meat sources for e.g. vitamin A or vitamin C. I only bring this up because the topic at hand is specifically about meat, not necessarily eschewing all animal products, so they are presumably allowed in this context.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#639

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Are you implying that children that are weaned shouldn't have non-dairy milk substitutes?

I’m fine with them having non-dairy beverages, but they aren’t “substitutes” nutritionally just because they have milk in the name. If your 1 year old is drinking almond milk (30cal and 1g protein per 8oz) instead of whole milk (150 cal and 8 gr protein per 8 oz), you need to adjust what you’re feeding, just like you would if you were giving any other drink. The issue is some people seem to assume liquids that are la…

It’s hard for me to care about misconceptions held by people unwilling to read the nutrition label clearly displayed on all of these products.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#640
post #616

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The former replaces the latter 1:1. That's a solution on the product level. It's not a solution on the systemic level, but that's not what I meant. It's at the same level as "cut your intake 50%", but more effective.

> The former replaces the latter 1:1. wait what? so everybody is eating grass but being tricked into thinking its meat today? It's going to cause the government to kill subsidies therefore jobs and not get their votes from bovine states? Do you work for beyond meats or for fake meat industry? You sound exactly like a lobbyist. Ignorant of their commercial interests and completely brainwashed by their cultural narrati…

> wait what? so everybody is eating grass but being tricked into thinking its meat today?

No, some people are eating grass and then not eating meat. And I'm not talking about today specifically but in general. 100 calories of A replace 100 calories of B.

> It's going to cause the government to kill subsidies therefore jobs and not get their votes from bovine states?

If people don't buy meat, then meat isn't made, subsidies or not.

> Ignorant of their commercial interests and completely brainwashed by their cultural narrative.

Whose interests? I'm not sure what you think I'm missing.

> You know not everybody shares your dull sense of taste right? You know people can taste the difference and they have no plans of accepting the future you fantasize right?

But... you were suggesting people eat less meat and more vegetables!

Being able to tell the difference doesn't mean you can't swap one for the other.

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