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How to lower the price of plant-based meat

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Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#501

Post by imhoguy »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #389
m463 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I wonder if a meat-based production system is a hedge against catastrophic/extinction events. For example, let's say we have another potato-famine style event. Even a bio-engineered attack that takes out a crop or crops. We could scale back meat production and use the crop capacity we use to support the "meat pyramid" to feed people directly until the crisis has passed. Subsidizing crop capacity might make…

This seems to suggest that you think our meat comes from animals who kinda exist and compete mutually with crops when actually we feed most of our crops to animals. If there was an ecological disaster that killed crop production, we wouldn't waste it by feeding it to animals for a grossly inefficient luxury item. It's like when people try to make a "pro-meat" claim by pointing out how much water it takes to grow a po…

Most animals can feed on wild grasses which we can't digest. They can serve us with a lot of resources and stay alive too (milk, wool, eggs). But if the event is so severe that even grass is gone, then rats are left and canibalism.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#502

Post by watwut »

tashoecraft wrote: post #203
henrikschroder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…

Agreed. So many non vegetarian/vegan people say stuff like this and it’s just wrong. Or they’ll say “why have a fake burger, can’t you just enjoy vegetarian food, why does it have to be a burger? If you want burger just eat one and stop trying to copy meat, innovate on your own”. It’s just people completely missing the point. If you get fake meat close enough in taste/texture/price you’ll move a large amount of produ…

> If you get fake meat close enough in taste/texture/price you’ll move a large amount of product.

But you are not getting them close enough for that. They taste different. They also have different nutritional composition, so if you will just replace meat by then brainlessly you are setting yourself up to failure.

Vegetarians who did not eate meat for years claim the taste is similar, but nobody else. And these could be good, if someone did not raised expectations up to "like meet" to sell it and then failed to execute.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#503

Post by henrikschroder »

runarberg wrote: post #446
henrikschroder wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AFAIK I don't think your knowledge on this subject goes very far, because you seem to have very weird views of how and why meat is best prepared. > With plant based food you have all these options and more. A perfectly seared medium rare centercut piece of beef tenderloin is such a great experience that my mouth starts watering just thinking about it. It is also currently completely impossible to recreate this expe…

This is such a silly subject, I wonder what I said in the above comment that started this. I can just as easily say that it is completely impossible to recreate the experience of chocolate brownie with meat. But that is not the point. I bet you only love seared medium rare centercut piece of beef tenderloin because you have learned to appreciate it. I on the other hand haven’t. The mere thought of eating beef gives b…

> I wonder what I said in the above comment that started this.

You don't like meat, eating meat disgusts you, you don't understand how people can like meat, and yet you butted into this discussion with your completely unfounded opinion on whether or not other people actually like meat or not.

You also seem to think that people liking cooked meat somehow means they actually don't like meat, as if liking raw meat is the only thing that counts, for some weird made-up reason?

Are you so bad at understanding other people that you can't fathom that they actually, genuinely, like things you don't like?

...and to tie this back to the article we're discussing: If you don't eat meat or don't like meat, then Beyond Meat and Impossible Burger are not products for you! You are not the target group! And that also means that the marketing of those products won't be appealing to you. That's fine! They're not trying to get you as a customer anyway! They're trying to get me as a customer!

> I bet you only love seared medium rare centercut piece of beef tenderloin because you have learned to appreciate it.

Nope, it's just fantastic, no taste acquiring needed.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#504

Post by imhoguy »

gbear605 wrote: post #457
krapht wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting question: how much would it cost to keep 3 years of food (let's assume the bare minimum - refined white flour) in reserve for the entire United States? What is the cost of food subsidies over the same period?

There’s some issue with storage - long term storage of food leads to the nutrients decaying.

Solution: rotation system.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#505

Post by xupybd »

danShumway wrote: post #416
Sevii wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a strategic perspective grain is the most important thing in a food shortage. People can live a year or two without fruit or vegetables, but without the calories in grain things will get violent fast.

I'm not going to dismiss it outright, but I am mild-to-medium skeptical of this theory. Take a look at some of the recent years of subsidies listed on https://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=00000&progcode=total&yr... . It's not just that we prioritize feed crops more than oranges, we also prioritize feed crops more than potatoes and root vegetables. Our corn subsidies are on average over twice as high as our wheat subs…

I think you'll find it's largely due to historical precedent and lobbying.

Very much the government altering the free market. Corn subsidies are not without their consequences. Cattle do not live healthily on corn. People don't do so well on corn syrup either.

I'm not a huge fan of reducing my own meat consumption but think the government should stop subsidizing these industries.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#506

Post by xupybd »

watwut wrote: post #491
danShumway wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to dismiss it outright, but I am mild-to-medium skeptical of this theory. Take a look at some of the recent years of subsidies listed on https://farm.ewg.org/region.php?fips=00000&progcode=total&yr... . It's not just that we prioritize feed crops more than oranges, we also prioritize feed crops more than potatoes and root vegetables. Our corn subsidies are on average over twice as high as our wheat subs…

> t's not just that we prioritize feed crops more than oranges, we also prioritize feed crops more than potatoes and root vegetables Root vegetables don't have much calories. So this would actually make sense.

Root vegetables absolutely do have high calories.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#507

Post by bearbawl »

danShumway wrote: post #383
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the problem is not dairy vs. non-dairy, it is with feeding kids who have been weaned a vegetarian or vegan diet in general. For instance, the following is a recent study (July 2020): Vegetarian and Vegan Weaning of the Infant: How Common and How Evidence-Based? A Population-Based Survey and Narrative Review Background: Vegetarian and vegan weaning have increasing popularity among parents and families. However, i…

That's certainly an interpretation of that study. Here's another one. > Almost half of parents (45.2%) claim that their pediatrician was unable to provide sufficient information and adequate indications regarding unconventional weaning and 77.4% of parents reported the pediatrician’s resistance towards alternative weaning methods. > Our results show that alternative weaning methods are followed by a significant numbe…

> This isn't an argument against vegetarian weaning, it's an argument for educating pediatricians so they're not shrugging their shoulders when people ask them how to keep their kids healthy.

No, it’s an argument that people should probably listen more to their pediatrician.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#508

Post by nkozyra »

Badfood wrote: post #449
nkozyra wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically all cardiovascular diseases are caused by animal products. [ citation needed ] I'm a long-time vegetarian but this kind of specious pseudo science doesn't sit right with me.

Calling it pseudo science is more in need of a citation than the original statement.

That's not how it works. If you're going to make a claim, support it.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#509

Post by VBprogrammer »

bushbaba wrote: post #468
ascar wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a reasonable argument that government subsidies for farmers reduce prices for the consumer, but I don't think it's necessarily a correct assumption. Subsidies help the local farmers to compete with farmers in low cost countries. Transportation costs are usually insignificant. So without subsidies the consumer might pay the same price, but the store just ends up sourcing the product from a different country. Howe…

You could also just have large import tariffs on food. I’m honestly suprised the us doesn’t just have a 25%+ import tariff. Would quickly cause more domestic manufacturing. Like why do we even import garlic from China. We have plenty of domestic ability to produce.

While you guys throw tariffs on food here and cut subsidies are any of you aware that for some 10% of American's having food on the table is not a given?

Now I'm not saying that subsidising farmers to produce huge crops of the same 3 crops is the best way of continuing to ensure no one goes hungry, it self evidently doesn't work given the current status quo.

However, to talk about making huge changes to these systems without stopping to consider what impact it will have on that part of society is an incredibly rose tinted view of the world.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#510

Post by nicolas_t »

WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

That's one of my pet peeves. I wish I could find good vegetarian restaurants that don't use any of the plant based meat ersatz. There's so much that can be done with vegetarian food, fake meat limits the creativity and is a lazy way to cooking. It leads to a rise of restaurants making mediocre food using plant based fake meat that is a pale comparison to the original.

So far my favorite restaurant experience ever was going to Fu He Hui in Shanghai. It's a michelin star vegetarian restaurant, there was no fake meat, but it was extremely flavorful and I keep wishing I could go back.

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