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Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

caranddriver.com

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Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#131

Post by imtringued »

clouddrover wrote: post #125
Hypocritelefty wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Renault sold more EV cars than any other manufacturer in Europe.

No, Volkswagen was the biggest EV manufacturer in Europe in 2020. Volkswagen owns 12 brands: https://www.volkswagenag.com/en/brands-and-models.html Volkswagen also sold more BEVs than Renault-Nissan globally: https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2021/02/2020-sales-by-oem.html

According to the comment section of the second link. VW will dominate the European market. China already has their own low end EV market. That leaves Tesla to dominate in North American and in the high end EV sector of China.

The foolish idea that Tesla will consume all ICE manufacturers is just wishful thinking.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#133

Post by wiether »

nikolay wrote: post #120

Electric cars - I get it... but who would in their right mind let their Ford drive itself?! Why is the self-driving a thing mostly in America? Don't people here enjoy driving? If they don't, why not focus on the more economical and environmentally-friendly mass transit instead? In Europe, people get a car and get behind the wheel, because they enjoy the experience, not because it gets them in the most efficient way f…

Average trip length is about ~12km[1] (we are talking about Europe so no weird units, sorry not sorry) and 22mn. That's about 33kmh, less than most speed limits within the cities. What it means is that most car trips are short and slow.

I consider myself as someone who likes to drive. But I don't own a car because most of my trips (done on my bicycle) are done in the city where I know I'm more efficient on my bike than if I was driving. So to me, self-driving cars are of little to no interest because when I drive, it's for trips longer than 100km and at an average speed around 100kmh, and I want to take the wheel and have manual gears.

But when I talk to people that drives daily, they mostly agree on the fact that they hate driving, because their trips are short and slow. But they hate even more "the people", so they dont want to use mass transit. And for them, self-driving is appealing because it means they can still travel in their private bubble, but instead of having to be concentrated on what surronds them to avoid crash or having issues with the law, they can do whatever they want : sleeping, watching Netflix...

[1] : https://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/bitstream/J... Tables 4.22 & 4.23

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#134

Post by imtringued »

InTheArena wrote: post #3

The patterns only going to become more pronounced from here on out. My guess is that we’re going to See a electric bulbs style phase out of gasoline engines announced over the next two years. If I’m Ford or GM I’m gonna try and get my hands on some of that sweet sweet tesla speculation cash in the form of a buy out as quickly as possible. Solves the technology platform problems too. If VW couldn’t handle it, why do y…

VW is a market leader for EVs in Europe. I would like to know what VW couldn't handle because it's not obvious from your comment. You left a lot of ambiguity.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#135

Post by imtringued »

polishdude20 wrote: post #80
woeirua wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s unclear what happens to the batteries after such a long period. The first modern EVs are still only 5-6 years old. That said the battery degradation on EVs with active thermal management looks pretty good. It’s plausible that batteries in the future will last the entire lifespan of the vehicle: at least 200k miles. The most common repairs on an EV can be done at your regular mechanic. The only thing that will pr…

I feel like with the reliability and durability of EV's the used market will not have remarkably low prices compared to gas cars. Low income families will still go with gas as they will get cheaper as well.

Yes, once EVs have matured they will keep their value after adjusting for subsidies (there are lots of stupid articles that don't understand why a used EV with 0 miles goes for 5k less than a new one). However, this should make financing a car more predictable.

It's better to own something that costs X amount per month than to get a steal and have unbudgeted surprise expenses if you are poor. Exploitation happens when someone is unable to make an informed decision because of information asymmetry.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#136

Post by tibbydudeza »

clouddrover wrote: post #62
cookiengineer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This so much sounds like all the PR stunt cars that renault put out. You literally have to lease a battery on top of the absurd prices, and you cannot get it changed for free, even when you lease it. Which makes all their cars basically useless after a year of usage, because the batteries are embedded in their chassis. Every time I compare European manufacturers to Tesla and Nissan, they are such a bad joke. Nissan h…

> Every time I compare European manufacturers to Tesla and Nissan, they are such a bad joke The Renault Zoe was the best selling BEV in Europe in 2020 and Volkswagen Group was the best selling BEV maker in Europe overall: https://ev-sales.blogspot.com/2021/01/europe-december-2020.h...

Renault also needs to expand their EV model range to the compact SUV market like the Koleos and lower cost Duster , it is undergoing testing.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#137

Post by yc-kraln »

nickik wrote: post #128
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in 10 years if you don't have a viable EV platform, you are closing your doors I for once hope that the bragging from EU about the H2 infrastructure is not usual hot air. It is really good to see major manufacturers coming up with H2 power plant ideas. In 10 years, I’m looking to drive a fuel cell powered car. It’s not going to be a popular opinion here but IMO, battery powered cars are a dead end. The range will a…

I think you are completely wrong, let me make the argument. As a whole, H2 cars are also quite heavy. You literally require everything that is in an EV plus multiple extra subsystems that are incredibly complex and not light by any means. The manufacturing and materials are very both complex and expensive. You need the fuel cell itself, and that is not just some thin layer, but a whole complex subsystem that requires…

I think Hydrogen fuel cell tech doesn't belong in passenger vehicles; there batteries can do a fine enough job. I believe the future of H2 is in intermodal transport, that is, trucking and (previously diesel) trains.

Why?

Do the math on weight, and you'll quickly see that you can't fit enough batteries in a Semi to give them the range that they need for long haul, while still being able to carry any appreciable amount of goods (There's a 40T limit on the roads in Europe, YMMV).

Together with Green Kerosine for Airplanes, and you've got Carbon-neutral transport: Electric Cars, Hydrogen Trucks and Trains, and (Green) Kerosine Airplanes.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#138

Post by rad_gruchalski »

nickik wrote: post #128
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in 10 years if you don't have a viable EV platform, you are closing your doors I for once hope that the bragging from EU about the H2 infrastructure is not usual hot air. It is really good to see major manufacturers coming up with H2 power plant ideas. In 10 years, I’m looking to drive a fuel cell powered car. It’s not going to be a popular opinion here but IMO, battery powered cars are a dead end. The range will a…

I think you are completely wrong, let me make the argument. As a whole, H2 cars are also quite heavy. You literally require everything that is in an EV plus multiple extra subsystems that are incredibly complex and not light by any means. The manufacturing and materials are very both complex and expensive. You need the fuel cell itself, and that is not just some thin layer, but a whole complex subsystem that requires…

> As a whole, H2 cars are also quite heavy. You literally require everything that is in an EV plus multiple extra subsystems that are incredibly complex and not light by any means.

Toyota Mirai 2 curb weight 1925 kg vs Tesla P100 curb weight 2241 kg. Both have the range of 500 to 507 km. But with a Mirai, given that the infra for filling up would exist, I’d spend 5 minutes filling up instead of 40 at a charging station. My math is okay.

> more wind turbines everywhere (that people already hate)

Yeah, I have dozens of those around. But you know what, more battery cars also need those so it’s not like we will be removing these soon.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#139

Post by whimsicalism »

Hypx wrote: post #37
whimsicalism wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fantasy vaporware that I still routinely see driving past my house.

If you mean a car without a driver and outside of a geofenced area, you definitely have not seen one before.

I don't know if I'm in a "geofenced area." I live in San Francisco, I routinely see self driving cars.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#140

Post by friedman23 »

totalZero wrote: post #45
friedman23 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This kind of uninformed negativity is why I'm loaded up on GM calls. GM btw, has no debt (at least in the way you are thinking).

If there is a cash takeout, the IV will go down. If there is a share component to a hypothetical acquisition, the IV will potentially increase. However, I'm not sure how likely that is. Just be aware that your Vega p&l could be negative, so extremely long dated calls with a lot of Vega may need a big gap between a cash takeout price and spot in order to be profitable.

I'm already up 200% on my $150k bet. The IV was basically nothing a month ago.
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