How to lower the price of plant-based meat • Hacker News Board

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#511

Post by m463 » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 8:56 AM UTC

hombre_fatal wrote: post #389

m463 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I wonder if a meat-based production system is a hedge against catastrophic/extinction events. For example, let's say we have another potato-famine style event. Even a bio-engineered attack that takes out a crop or crops. We could scale back meat production and use the crop capacity we use to support the "meat pyramid" to feed people directly until the crisis has passed. Subsidizing crop capacity might make…

This seems to suggest that you think our meat comes from animals who kinda exist and compete mutually with crops when actually we feed most of our crops to animals. If there was an ecological disaster that killed crop production, we wouldn't waste it by feeding it to animals for a grossly inefficient luxury item. It's like when people try to make a "pro-meat" claim by pointing out how much water it takes to grow a po…

That's what I meant by meat pyramid (we're both arguing the same point)

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#512

Post by m463 » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 8:59 AM UTC

yissp wrote: post #332

m463 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, I wonder if a meat-based production system is a hedge against catastrophic/extinction events. For example, let's say we have another potato-famine style event. Even a bio-engineered attack that takes out a crop or crops. We could scale back meat production and use the crop capacity we use to support the "meat pyramid" to feed people directly until the crisis has passed. Subsidizing crop capacity might make…

OTOH shifting away from meat consumption would probably force more species diversity in our food production. I think corn and soybeans account for most of the crops grown for livestock feed, but humans eat a more varied diet. I image that would improve robustness against blights or whatever.

I think more mindful government strategies would do that. Right now it is: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/United_S...

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#513

Post by biztos » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 9:00 AM UTC

danShumway wrote: post #93

hannob wrote: post #30

Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. (Interestingly even in places where there's some form of carbon pricing - like the EU - this often doesn't cover a large share of emissions from meat production, as methane emissions are very relevant here - I'm not aware of any methane pricing scheme anywhere.)

Even if we ignore externalities and pollution costs, just stop outright subsidizing animal meat production so much. The reason meat is so cheap is because our government puts a lot of effort and money into making it cheap. I don't know why more people aren't trying to sell this to the "free market" crowd as government overreach. The reality right now is that plant-based protein is gaining popularity despite the marke…

I wonder, aren’t there some countries where this isn’t the case?

We might look at them to see how diet relates to agriculture subsidies.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#514

Post by Baeocystin » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 9:05 AM UTC

asutekku wrote: post #476

Baeocystin wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. I know more than one person who would turn up their nose at a 'veggie meat' sandwich, but would happily tuck in to a falafel wrap. Marketing matters!

Yes, but those people are usually already vegetarians. ”Fake meat” is meant for people who still do it meat, not for someone who has completely banished it from their lives.

>Yes, but those people are usually already vegetarians.

I realize I didn't clarify this with my original statement, but I meant 'folks I know who are avowed meat-eaters, and not vegetarians'.

To be honest, this surprised me a little, too. But I've come to realize a lot of 'meat>*' people really love the veggie dishes I share with them, as long as it's an upfront, honest vegetable dish, and not trying to pretend it's something else.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#515

Post by tomstoms » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 9:06 AM UTC

biztos wrote: post #513

danShumway wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if we ignore externalities and pollution costs, just stop outright subsidizing animal meat production so much. The reason meat is so cheap is because our government puts a lot of effort and money into making it cheap. I don't know why more people aren't trying to sell this to the "free market" crowd as government overreach. The reality right now is that plant-based protein is gaining popularity despite the marke…

I wonder, aren’t there some countries where this isn’t the case? We might look at them to see how diet relates to agriculture subsidies.

India

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#516

Post by biztos » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 9:12 AM UTC

hannob wrote: post #30

Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. (Interestingly even in places where there's some form of carbon pricing - like the EU - this often doesn't cover a large share of emissions from meat production, as methane emissions are very relevant here - I'm not aware of any methane pricing scheme anywhere.)

It also would be worth at least studying the subsidized production of insects for food.

I would think it’s more efficient to get protein from bugs than to go through all the complicated manufacturing process to get “fake” meat, which is very far from being a raw/natural product.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#517

Post by Grustaf » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 9:14 AM UTC

tjr225 wrote: post #260

Grustaf wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I agree. There’s delicious vegetarian dishes, with low processed ingredients. Why bother with ultra processed fake meat?

Its pretty intuitive, actually: people like burgers- even vegetarians or those trying to reduce their meat consumption.

I think that varies from person to person. People from largely vegetarian cultures probably don’t crave vegetarian hamburgers.

And not all people from meat cultures do either. When I was vegetarian for a few years I simply ate vegetarian dishes. It probably depends on why you became vegetarian in the first place.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#518

Post by Grustaf » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 9:16 AM UTC

runarberg wrote: post #400

Grustaf wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tofu is nothing like meat in neither taste nor texture, and I’m pretty sure it has never been seen as a meat substitute traditionally.

I don’t think parent was ever saying that tofu was (nor should) be similar to meat in taste nor texture. That is not the point. You can still prepare and spice tofu just like you would do with meat, and get a complete meal that replaces meat with something else that adds to the quality of the meal just like meat would, regardless of whether the substitute replicates the texture or taste at all.

That is much closer to my standpoint then. I think it’s silly to imitate meat, when there are plenty of delicious vegetarian dishes. For example tofu dishes.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#519

Post by biztos » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 9:17 AM UTC

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #387

sitharus wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much of the population have to eat the cheapest thing possible it'll certainly have an effect. Make it $1 extra for meat, some will take it but many will save the dollar for something else.

I feel it’s not “cheapest” but “easiest” - though the two are inextricably linked: easy leads to cheap. I wonder if a hole-in-the-wall franchise based on serving Soylent-based food might work - like a Boba Tea or Pho place, but serving insulated mugs of hot Soylent?

I would buy that for sure, as long as the shop was painted green.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#520

Post by danShumway » Sun, Feb 07, 2021, 9:18 AM UTC

bearbawl wrote: post #507

danShumway wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's certainly an interpretation of that study. Here's another one. > Almost half of parents (45.2%) claim that their pediatrician was unable to provide sufficient information and adequate indications regarding unconventional weaning and 77.4% of parents reported the pediatrician’s resistance towards alternative weaning methods. > Our results show that alternative weaning methods are followed by a significant numbe…

> This isn't an argument against vegetarian weaning, it's an argument for educating pediatricians so they're not shrugging their shoulders when people ask them how to keep their kids healthy. No, it’s an argument that people should probably listen more to their pediatrician.

This study does not conclude that a vegetarian diet is unhealthy for weaned children -- in fact, it concludes the opposite, that vegetarian diets are fine for weaning if parents are properly guided through the process.

If pediatricians are not properly equipped to guide through that process, then yes, it is a problem with educating pediatricians.

Health professionals need to be educated about what a healthy vegetarian diet looks like for children, because they are going to meet vegetarians who (very reasonably) are not going to accept an answer of "this is totally possible to do well, but I don't personally know how to do it, so nobody should do it." I think it's reasonable for the public to expect that those people learn how to address the health issues that the people under their care are facing.