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Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

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Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#101

Post by ogre_codes »

Animats wrote: post #87

They slipped another year? "During its announcement, Ford also reminded us that the electric version of its cash cow, the F-150, is slated to go into production in mid-2022. Not the 2022 model year, which begins in September of 2021. Jeep pulled that stunt. 2018: “In addition to the all-new mild hybrid Wrangler, a full plug in electric Jeep Wrangler will be available in 2020”. That slipped to 2022. Worse, "2022 will…

Well their competition has slipped too, Musk said they would be "Lucky" if the Cybertruck starts shipping in 2021 and doesn't expect it to ship in volume until 2022. Assuming they both stay on schedule from here, that means Ford is likely only 6 months behind Tesla. Rivian is still scheduled for July of this year.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#102

Post by rswail »

Has anyone noticed that Ford and GM have made commitments to EV just after the change of administration?

Given that the new administration has already committed to moving the Federal fleet to EVs and is going "all in" on full commitment to reducing emissions, this is positioning by the auto manufacturers.

There is also now alignment between the Californian emission standards and the Federal government, which means that there is going to be downward pressure on the auto manufacturers overall emission profile. CAFE standard excluded "trucks" which is why the F150 etc are the "best sellers". If there was a move to include them in the overall emission standards, the move to EV would be substantially accelerated.

Just like Shell and others in the oil/energy markets are realigning, so to are the primary manufacturers of emissions generating technology.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#103

Post by tomcam »

prostoalex wrote: post #7

It seems like I’ve seen this movie before. A large automotive consortium puts out an optimistic press release announcing its full commitment to EVs https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1086902_volkswagen-will... Then it turns out that the primary cost contributor to an EV is the cost of batteries. Automakers being relative nobodies on the lithium market, they are paying retail for it and passing the mark-ups to you,…

You forgot the giant tax credit that costs citizens a lot of money yet ends up not helping the cause

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#104

Post by clouddrover »

ogre_codes wrote: post #95
clouddrover wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Within 4 years, Tesla is going to be selling EVs for $25k. GM is selling EVs for $25k right now. The Chevy Bolt probably is the best EV for the money in the world today. The Renault Zoe and the VW ID.3 are not too far off that price and are strong sellers in Europe. A smaller battery version of the ID.3 is coming out this year.

GM is ... selling the Bolt for $36k with a $10k subsidy. They are not selling a $25k car. The fact that they can still collect the subsidy is a sign of how bad they've done in this market. I'm not sure why the Bolt isn't more popular for the money. Well aside from the fact that it's ugly.

> GM is selling the Bolt for $36k with a $10k subsidy

No, GM incentives.

> The fact that they can still collect the subsidy

No, they can't. The federal tax subsidy expired a while ago:

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/electric-car-tax-credit-g...

Here's a list of EVs still eligible federal tax credits. The Bolt is not one of them:

https://www.cars.com/articles/which-electric-cars-are-still-...

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#105

Post by laut »

Animats wrote: post #87

They slipped another year? "During its announcement, Ford also reminded us that the electric version of its cash cow, the F-150, is slated to go into production in mid-2022. Not the 2022 model year, which begins in September of 2021. Jeep pulled that stunt. 2018: “In addition to the all-new mild hybrid Wrangler, a full plug in electric Jeep Wrangler will be available in 2020”. That slipped to 2022. Worse, "2022 will…

The Wrangler 4xe is a plug-in hybrid and began production last year. That car is featured on the US website too.

Jeep also has the Renegade 4xe and Compass 4xe. All plug-in hybrids. Fiat might not have brought them to the US yet.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#106

Post by [deleted] »

Animats wrote: post #87

They slipped another year? "During its announcement, Ford also reminded us that the electric version of its cash cow, the F-150, is slated to go into production in mid-2022. Not the 2022 model year, which begins in September of 2021. Jeep pulled that stunt. 2018: “In addition to the all-new mild hybrid Wrangler, a full plug in electric Jeep Wrangler will be available in 2020”. That slipped to 2022. Worse, "2022 will…

[deleted]

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#107

Post by [deleted] »

nickik wrote: post #20
pmorici wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The chances that Tesla will buy out a legacy auto company are zero. It makes no sense. They are all saddled with crushing debt loads, dealer networks, and stranded assets. None of them have anything Tesla needs to become the largest car manufacturer in history by 2030.

There are so many more issues. They have lots of plants that Tesla doesn't need or want. Even worse, you can't close down those plants because of unions and politics. Tesla doesn't want unions in general. Battery being the limiting factor means that having more ability to produce cars is basically useless.

[deleted]

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#108

Post by Hypocritelefty »

cookiengineer wrote: post #17
prostoalex wrote: post #7

It seems like I’ve seen this movie before. A large automotive consortium puts out an optimistic press release announcing its full commitment to EVs https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1086902_volkswagen-will... Then it turns out that the primary cost contributor to an EV is the cost of batteries. Automakers being relative nobodies on the lithium market, they are paying retail for it and passing the mark-ups to you,…

This so much sounds like all the PR stunt cars that renault put out. You literally have to lease a battery on top of the absurd prices, and you cannot get it changed for free, even when you lease it. Which makes all their cars basically useless after a year of usage, because the batteries are embedded in their chassis. Every time I compare European manufacturers to Tesla and Nissan, they are such a bad joke. Nissan h…

Renault sold more EV cars than any other manufacturer in Europe.

Re: Ford Makes $29B Commitment to Electric and Self-Driving Cars

#110

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

Qwertious wrote: post #85
natch wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is just going through the growing pains of ramping production so their repair story is still a work in progress at the moment. They make it work as needed, but it’s not always ideal nor as widely available everywhere as people hope yet. It will get better. Disabling supercharging for DIY battery fix/hack jobs I assume is done to protect the network so that other cars are not impacted by a potentially incorrect…

>I believe it’s usually a heathy practice in life to look for the straightforward explanations that don’t assume bad motives in the part of the actor you are looking at. I hope that you balance it with a healthy skepticism of a publicly traded company's justifications for their profits. Tesla sells heated seats etc and when you buy it, what you get is a software update enabling the existing hardware - it's artificial…

Disabled features don't impact repairability. This is no different than IBM selling mainframes with unlockable processors.
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