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How to lower the price of plant-based meat

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Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#431

Post by User23 »

runarberg wrote: post #428
awillen wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you mean is that people don't like the taste and texture of raw meat, and they're only pretending to like it because it's cooked? If you like steak cooked with some salt on it, that doesn't mean that you don't like steak. I honestly don't get the point you're even trying to make here... because people do less to prepare vegetables they're somehow superior?

No, sorry I must not have made my point clear enough (this is what I get for trying to be snarky): GP is saying that people like the taste and texture of meat. I’m saying that they only do after they have altered the taste and the texture of if. My point is that there is nothing inherent about meat that people like. This is relevant to OP as the above claim is that there is no need to replicate the texture and taste…

Steak tartare is delicious, and it's only cooked for the bare minimum to reduce the risk of food born illness. It turns out that raw meat is a delicacy. Also there's this thing called sashimi you may have heard of.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#432

Post by jfim »

runarberg wrote: post #403
jfim wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> AFAIK people usually don’t like the flavor nor texture of meat. If that was the case, you would see more people boiling the meat and not spice it. If that was true, steaks would not be a thing. A good steak has some coarse salt and pepper for seasoning, but not much else. Boiling meat is pretty much the worst way to prepare any cut of meat, and will ensure that it has a tough and unpleasant texture, strip all of th…

You are just reiterating my point exactly. People like to alter the taste and texture of the food we eat. We do it with our plant based food, and —to a much greater extent—we do it to our meat based food. Also, salt is a very powerful spice.

> We do it with our plant based food, and—to a much greater extent—we do it to our meat based food.

I'd disagree with that, I don't think plant based foods are seasoned or prepared that differently. Maybe you're thinking of barbecue where meat can be rubbed, smoked, then slathered in barbecue sauce, but most people don't eat that on a daily basis. Besides, it's not as if vegetarian and vegan dishes don't have any spices, a curry or a chili will have just as many spices as a rack of ribs or a brisket, if not more.

A plant based burger is prepped just as a meat based one, fried chicken isn't that far removed from tempura vegetables, cream of celery isn't that different from cream of chicken, and so on. Honestly, I can't think of a plant based dish that wouldn't have a meat based equivalent, other than salad.

> Also, salt is a very powerful spice.

Depends on how you want to look at it. It's not really a spice in the sense that it's not aromatic or pungent, it's in the category of ingredients that enhance taste, like monosodium glutamate.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#433

Post by runarberg »

jfim wrote: post #432
runarberg wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are just reiterating my point exactly. People like to alter the taste and texture of the food we eat. We do it with our plant based food, and —to a much greater extent—we do it to our meat based food. Also, salt is a very powerful spice.

> We do it with our plant based food, and—to a much greater extent—we do it to our meat based food. I'd disagree with that, I don't think plant based foods are seasoned or prepared that differently. Maybe you're thinking of barbecue where meat can be rubbed, smoked, then slathered in barbecue sauce, but most people don't eat that on a daily basis. Besides, it's not as if vegetarian and vegan dishes don't have any spi…

I address this in a sibling comment.

In short: There is nothing inherent about meat that people like. People only like meat after they have altered the taste and texture of it. People can do the same (and more) with plant based food. In conclusion: Striving for the taste and texture of meat in particular is a poor goal for plant based food, as superior options exist.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#434

Post by chipotle_coyote »

Spivak wrote: post #411
chipotle_coyote wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the vast majority of those ingredients, the answer sure looks like "yes." A few are literally standard home cooking ingredients, and nearly all the rest (dextrose, yeast extract, vitamin mixes, etc.) are pretty common in any processed food, which -- let's be honest here -- a lot of us buy pretty regularly. I'm not sure there's anything there that's unique to the Impossible Burger other than the "soy leghemoglobin…

Yeast extract is Marmite! And dextrose is a derivative of corn syrup. And enriched flour is characterized by having vitamins added to it. So they’re not that uncommon either.

D'oh! Being an American with little Marmite exposure, I'd totally forgotten it was yeast extract. :)

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#435

Post by celtain »

azifali wrote: post #254
867-5309 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not only this, but to turn plants into "meat" you end up with horrible processed vegetables with added oils, sugars and unnatural flavourings. most of which are then breadcrumbed in bleached flour and deep fried. by this point, the thing that might once have been a plant is now as bad as meat, if not worse, and resembles a dog turd in taste and health benefits

Completely agree. Why can't we all just eat regular, and not so highly processed vegetables if we want to make the switch to healthier diet..

Few people completely stop eating meat for health reasons these days. Even reducing red meat consumption is no longer considered particularly important for your health. It's almost always about the environmental and/or ethical issues surrounding the production of meat.

I love the taste of meat, so even though I want to reduce my carbon footprint I also want to keep eating burgers. Impossible burgers and other highly processed foods give me the best balance of those two competing desires.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#436

Post by henrikschroder »

runarberg wrote: post #394
henrikschroder wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…

> People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture AFAIK people usually don’t like the flavor nor texture of meat. If that was the case, you would see more people boiling the meat and not spice it. But AFAIK meat eaters tend to spice their meat a lot, to an extent where there it is the spice is the primary taste. They then oil the meat and prefer it fried or grilled which alters the texture as well. With p…

> AFAIK

I don't think your knowledge on this subject goes very far, because you seem to have very weird views of how and why meat is best prepared.

> With plant based food you have all these options and more.

A perfectly seared medium rare centercut piece of beef tenderloin is such a great experience that my mouth starts watering just thinking about it.

It is also currently completely impossible to recreate this experience using vegetarian options.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#437

Post by asdff »

Someone1234 wrote: post #198
WaitWaitWha wrote: post #143

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

If it says plant-based meat, I am going to try it since it aims to simulate a taste/texture I know I like. If it says "vegetarian" I assume it will taste bad, because historically that has been the case. That's an anecdote, but I don't think I am an edge case, many people have tried an Impossible Burger who had little to no interest in trying a vegetarian burger.

Some of my favorite food is vegetarian. None of it is in burger form though: paneer curry, falafel, tofu, beans, etc. I think this imitating meat thing kinda swings and whiffs; they could have gone down any delicious not meat tasting route and put it into easy to prepare burger form and ground chuck, but opted to just make something vaguely reminiscent of meat instead.

I mean, why isn't there any falafel fast food (outside the guys selling out of carts in front of bars), just a crispy delicious falafel patty on a burger bun and fixings? Some of the most delicious vegetarian food there is stays siloed into ethnic restaurants that the median American either lacks access to get it or interest to try it.

Funny that we have to resort to baiting and switching your big mac instead to get some to try vegetarian food.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#438

Post by jfim »

runarberg wrote: post #428
awillen wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you mean is that people don't like the taste and texture of raw meat, and they're only pretending to like it because it's cooked? If you like steak cooked with some salt on it, that doesn't mean that you don't like steak. I honestly don't get the point you're even trying to make here... because people do less to prepare vegetables they're somehow superior?

No, sorry I must not have made my point clear enough (this is what I get for trying to be snarky): GP is saying that people like the taste and texture of meat. I’m saying that they only do after they have altered the taste and the texture of if. My point is that there is nothing inherent about meat that people like. This is relevant to OP as the above claim is that there is no need to replicate the texture and taste…

> My point is that there is nothing inherent about meat that people like.

There is actually, otherwise people wouldn't try to make a plant based version of it. It's savory (as in umami), has a higher fat content than plants, and also can have a variety of textures depending on the cut and cooking method, among other things.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#439

Post by ebiester »

jcampbell1 wrote: post #75
ebiester wrote: post #29

I disagree with some of the premises. First, I think that the right choice is to pick the right protein for the job, and not choose wheat and soy because of price. Mung beans, for example, are expensive because people aren't growing them. If quantity demanded grows, so will supply and supply chains, which will lower the price. It is possible that mung beans (as an example) are marginally more expensive to grow for so…

The protein yield per acre for soybeans vs mung beans is 6x. No amount of try hard is going to make mung bean protein close in price to soy. What gets me is that I can’t even source tofu that is cheaper than chicken. Chickens are very good reactors for turning carbohydrates into protein.

I would love to see how much of that is based on subsidies.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#440

Post by asdff »

ascar wrote: post #354
danShumway wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if we ignore externalities and pollution costs, just stop outright subsidizing animal meat production so much. The reason meat is so cheap is because our government puts a lot of effort and money into making it cheap. I don't know why more people aren't trying to sell this to the "free market" crowd as government overreach. The reality right now is that plant-based protein is gaining popularity despite the marke…

It's a reasonable argument that government subsidies for farmers reduce prices for the consumer, but I don't think it's necessarily a correct assumption. Subsidies help the local farmers to compete with farmers in low cost countries. Transportation costs are usually insignificant. So without subsidies the consumer might pay the same price, but the store just ends up sourcing the product from a different country. Howe…

Some of the subsidies are entrenched and strongly lobbied. There is no reason at all to be wasting water on almonds or cotton in California, for an example.
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