> The product solves animal cruelty explain. > why should I care very much that the company itself is amoral? do you realize the paradox of this sentence?
> explain. There is no animal cruelty in its production, so that solves the problem of "making this kind of thing is cruel to animals". To be more specific, I mean the whole scenario of people buying it "as meat" removes all animal cruelty from their meat-motivated food purchases. Not that the product will stop people from kicking puppies somehow. > do you realize the paradox of this sentence? No, what is it? I said…
explain how killing plants is the solution to the subsidized bovine industry's continued production of meats
> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…
I think you and OP are talking about different things. For most products, and virtually all that aren't particularly modern, they suffer from being set up as direct replacements for meat. Take fake deli meats, for example. There are options that make a good sandwich. But they don't make a good $specific-meat sandwich. If they found a way to position themselves more in the vein of ham vs turkey vs plant-based sandwich…
This. In conversations about vegetarianism, it's pretty common for people to give their distaste of fake meat as their primary reason for not reducing their meat consumption. I really wish that wasn't the default counter-argument, but there seem to be a lot of people who truly believe vegetarians need soymeat to survive.
I've noticed the vegan foods I enjoy most are the ones that aren't trying to be something else. They just use tasty vegan ingredients like potatoes or avocados. I think more people would consider reductarian diets if they were aware of this.
I’m not sure “nobody” would notice. I’ve had impossible meat burger and beyond meat burger. The beyond meat was disgusting. It wasn’t even slightly convincing. Impossible was more convincing texture wise but taste wise it makes you look at what you’re eating cos it’s like “huh it feels like meat but doesn’t taste like it...”
In my experience, how they're prepared matters a lot. Strangely, I think Impossible Burgers (the ones I'm more familiar with) do worse when they're overcooked than actual meat does. The very first Impossible Burger I ever had was thick and cooked medium-rare, and it was terrific, pink on the inside and genuinely juicy. If I didn't know it was plant-based meat, I wouldn't have been able to tell you; it didn't taste qu…
Yeah, the first Impossible Burger I had was prepared extremely well, and it was one of the best burgers I’ve ever had. Not true for many other times I’ve had it.
I agree. Back when I was young, my mom was talking to a friend about food and tofu came up. They had never heard of it and asked what it was like. My mom said it was kinda like cheese. Fast forward to the next time the friend was over, and they related that they had tried buying some tofu and hated it. Why? Because they figured to try to use it like they use cheese, and tried to put slices of tofu in a sandwich... Ca…
My disagreement with your comment is based on the words “veggie patties”, which I don’t think really capture what’s going on with “fake meat”. These are not boca burgers, mushroom burgers, or black bean burger (which I eat a lot of), but something that actually (afaict) tastes like meat.
It's a weird meat taste, though, in this uncanny valley of meat like flavor. Something is a bit off about the impossible burger and others, and it tastes like they tried to hide it with grease. Cooking this sort of fake meat makes it evident why that is. You won't see high amounts of grease on the box, but you need it to cook, and fake meat absorbs grease like a god damned sponge. I have to use a massive amount of olive oil to brown fake ground meat. And it makes sense because there is nothing in there to render out, so stuff has to work its way in instead like osmosis.
Umm, just eat the plants instead? I don't get fake meat. It is a solution to the wrong problem. Make a small amount of meat sustainable and respectful of animal wellness. Then make the rest of your diet plant based. Done.
>respectful of animal wellness
Killing the animal is not respectful to its wellness.
A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…
All meat is plant-based as anyone that understands basic ecology knows.
You are just reiterating my point exactly. People like to alter the taste and texture of the food we eat. We do it with our plant based food, and —to a much greater extent—we do it to our meat based food. Also, salt is a very powerful spice.
So what you mean is that people don't like the taste and texture of raw meat, and they're only pretending to like it because it's cooked? If you like steak cooked with some salt on it, that doesn't mean that you don't like steak. I honestly don't get the point you're even trying to make here... because people do less to prepare vegetables they're somehow superior?
No, sorry I must not have made my point clear enough (this is what I get for trying to be snarky):
GP is saying that people like the taste and texture of meat. I’m saying that they only do after they have altered the taste and the texture of if. My point is that there is nothing inherent about meat that people like.
This is relevant to OP as the above claim is that there is no need to replicate the texture and taste of meat as you you have infinitely many ways to structure the taste and structure of plant based food, including ways that are superior in both taste and texture to how people prepare meat.
> because nature almost by definition is living things eating other living things and humans evolved to be omnivorous for various nutritional reasons This is such a non-argument, and I'm saying this as a(n occasional) meat-eater. > nature almost by definition is living things eating other living things The default state for most living beings is scarcity. I think we all intuitively judge the morality of people's acti…
From a strict evidence-based medicine standpoint we don't have clear evidence for or against vegetarian diets. But if you look at elite athletes whose livelihoods depend on keeping their bodies in peak condition the vast majority consume at least some animal products. So empirically that should tell us something.
There could be a lot of reasons for that. I doubt the reason is that meat is the healthiest option for them; meat contains a lot of saturated fat, which athletes try to avoid too much of. It's more likely that meat is healthy enough for athletes who enjoy eating meat. This wouldn't mean they need meat, and they most certainly don't as there are a lot of successful vegan bodybuilders.
> People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture AFAIK people usually don’t like the flavor nor texture of meat. If that was the case, you would see more people boiling the meat and not spice it. But AFAIK meat eaters tend to spice their meat a lot, to an extent where there it is the spice is the primary taste. They then oil the meat and prefer it fried or grilled which alters the texture as well. With p…
> AFAIK people usually don’t like the flavor nor texture of meat. If that was the case, you would see more people boiling the meat and not spice it. If that was true, steaks would not be a thing. A good steak has some coarse salt and pepper for seasoning, but not much else. Boiling meat is pretty much the worst way to prepare any cut of meat, and will ensure that it has a tough and unpleasant texture, strip all of th…
> Boiling meat is pretty much the worst way to prepare any cut of meat, and will ensure that it has a tough and unpleasant texture, strip all of the fats making it dry, and overall ruin a perfectly good cut of meat.
However, sous vide is an absolutely marvelous way to prepare meat. It keeps it tender and juicy and then you can just sear it in a skillet or with a kitchen torch to get that nice Maillard reaction taste.