Live data from Hacker News

How to lower the price of plant-based meat

us14.campaign-archive.com

241–250 of 679 posts

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#241

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

Literally the entire reason these products exist is to be a replacement for meat. A replacement should be as good as the thing it is replacing.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#242

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

The place you’re right is in the “slab of meat” category: the only thing that’ll replace steak is lab-grown meat, and then only partially. And I agree that, eg bean burgers do well to market themselves as different. It’s a legit point. But this new fake meat stuff reduced my meat intake significantly. It’s is FANTASTIC for replacing low-quality meat in a lot of cases. I have no need for ground beef/turkey/pork if I h…

I remember trying a Beyond Burger for the first time.

Overall impression was that had some fastfood chains replaced their patties with this, not only nobody would notice that what they're eating isn't actually meat, but also they would be happy with how the quality improved.

There's of course the question of price, but I'm sure with adequate scale it can be brought down.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#244
post #30

Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. (Interestingly even in places where there's some form of carbon pricing - like the EU - this often doesn't cover a large share of emissions from meat production, as methane emissions are very relevant here - I'm not aware of any methane pricing scheme anywhere.)

>> Interestingly it doesn't even discuss the obvious solution: Let people who buy real meat pay for the externalities. Are we going to have people paying for the "externalities" of all the products they consume? For example, the people who buy a new phone every year or half (this habit causes a significant amount of pollution, so-called "e-waste"). The people who drive their car everywhere. The people who fly a few t…

> Are we going to have people paying for the "externalities" of all the products they consume?

Well, yes, we should. Considering that notion is baked into every part of the economic models we're using to determine how we're structuring the rest of the economy, absolutely, the bare minimum we could do is make people actually pay for the damage they're causing. I'd go so far as to say a substantial part of the reason we seem unable to reasonably address things like pollution, climate change, and biodiversity is because people aren't paying the full cost of their actions.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#245
post #176

Aside from personal preference, I would think there are two main reasons to consider replacing animal meat protein with plant protein. Because it could be healthier for the planet, and because it could be healthier for human consumption. I’m not sure we’ve proven either one is definitely true. I think the evidence leans towards plant farming being less impactful to the planet on a fundamental conservation of energy b…

You do know that a high proportion of all crops in the US are fed to cows right? We are not feeding cows grass, so your argument is mostly moot.

So, to recap, feeding plant crops to animals is the current best way to produce plant based meat. Seems like the best way to feed our crops is also with animal products. I don’t really understand why we want to work so hard to drive a technological wedge into this process. Is it to get rid of other animals on the planet?

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#246
post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The place you’re right is in the “slab of meat” category: the only thing that’ll replace steak is lab-grown meat, and then only partially. And I agree that, eg bean burgers do well to market themselves as different. It’s a legit point. But this new fake meat stuff reduced my meat intake significantly. It’s is FANTASTIC for replacing low-quality meat in a lot of cases. I have no need for ground beef/turkey/pork if I h…

I remember trying a Beyond Burger for the first time. Overall impression was that had some fastfood chains replaced their patties with this, not only nobody would notice that what they're eating isn't actually meat, but also they would be happy with how the quality improved. There's of course the question of price, but I'm sure with adequate scale it can be brought down.

They're surprisingly good. If it wasn't more expensive than meat I would have it more often.

I'm not going to pay more for lower quality protein (from a body building perspective).

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. I think you are completely wrong. People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. If you want to get people to switch to meat alternatives, you have to keep everything that's great abo…

> People eat meat because they like the taste and the texture, but at the same time everyone knows that meat is produced by killing animals, and that it's much less sustainable than vegetarian food. I think this is too generous. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but the implicit message here is that people actually care about the animals and sustainability of meat farming. My spouse is vegetarian and I'm whatever. I don't…

Sample size of one, but I eventually changed my habits because I care about trying to reduce unnecessary suffering.

For years I knew I was inconsistent - I thought it was wrong to eat meat, but I did so anyway because I like hamburgers and chicken (and was focusing will power on other things). The pandemic gave me the opportunity to make the change.

The impossible burger is perfect for me because it’s close enough to satisfy the fix. I hope more meat substitutes trend in this direction (or even more so with lab grown meat).

Most people believe crazy things and hold wildly inconsistent views so it’s not a surprise that people don’t change their behavior. Having consistent views that are tied to reality is hard. Changing behavior is hard too.

In the extreme cases (particularly with true unknowns) perfect consistency isn’t even necessarily achievable or desirable. That said, trying to understand the world as it truly is and be pragmatic is still good. In the animal case, I think trying to reduce unnecessary suffering is a worthwhile goal.

Related: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/08/14/beware-isolated-demand...

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#248
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU is a democracy.

Like the average EU citizen, I don't remember ever voting for anybody who represents me in the EU and I don't know any of the structures of power of the EU or how they work.

Turnout in Spain for the 2019 election was pretty high at 60%, compared to average of 50%. Counter to your (somewhat xenophobic) remarks about France and Germany, the most engaged countries by this measure are Belgium, Luxembourg, Malta and Denmark.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#249

A tangential topic - I really think that in general calling plant-based things "meat", a terrible idea. It does not promote plant-base diet or meat consumption reduction. It is trying to be what is not. I think it pushes away those who are on the cusp of moving towards plant-base foods. Why? Because the consumer is told it is "meat", so they will compare it to meat. They will compare these patties to a real, prime An…

I started trying to google for research on this, but didn't find much.

But I'm pretty sure you're wrong -- I doubt that these companies would be selling these premium meat-replacement products with the word meat if they didn't have lots of market research on it.

It tells you what you can use the things for -- the impossible and beyond products can be used to replace ground beef in pretty much any recipe, and will do the job. People can use it immediately with the recipes and cooking techniques they are familiar with, it makes the product comfortable and familiar instead of a new thing that requires them to adjust their palettes and learn new cooking techniques.

I think you're right that someone who has committed to a meat-free diet doesn't want or need the label meat. (but they'll buy the stuff anyway if they like it and can afford it, they are kind of a captive market). But when you say "meat consumption reduction" -- if every meat eater replaces say 20% of their meat consumption with this stuff, it would be a gigantic reduction in animals killed (for those who care about that). Assuming there is less greenhouse gas and other ecological damage from these meat replacements, a gigantic reduction in that too.

I dont think you can lump together committed vegetarians with ominivores who may replace a portion of their consumption with these products. Perhaps an ever-increasing portion, perhaps eventually they will become vegetarians. But calling the non-animal-based stuff "meat" is squarely aimed at current omnivores -- and it seems hard to argue that it won't work when it is literally working, as the OP outlines in talking about market share and grocery space. Burger king is selling impossible burgers because they can sell them as burgers; and if they tried instead introducing some new product that isn't meant to resemble a beef burger but is just some kind of "vegetarian food", I guarantee it would sell less not more.

Re: How to lower the price of plant-based meat

#250
post #2

It really shouldn't be called "meat". It should be called plant-based protein or meat-substitute. The definition of "meat" shouldn't change because you press some soy to look like a chicken leg.

>press some soy to look like a chicken leg.

Are we even that there yet, seems like wide marketing died off after innovation in the space churned out one ground beef patty mcnugget meat product after another.

I don't mind deceptive labelling if for mass appeal. I do want meat substitutes that actually behave and taste like meat in more than ground form. It's not viable substitute for vast majority of cuisine from around the world, that's before even getting into delicacies like offal.

Post reply on HN