NordVPN disables features when you turn off auto-renew • Hacker News Board

Re: NordVPN disables features when you turn off auto-renew

#161

Post by rsync » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

notRobot wrote: post #5

Honestly, nothing holds up to Mullvad [1]. They don't even take an email address while creating accounts, and you can pay easily with Bitcoin or even with cash mailed to them. I'm not affiliated, just a very happy customer. Mullvad is also who Mozilla trusts for the Mozilla VPN [2]. You can sign up with that if you'd like Mozilla to get a cut. [1]: https://mullvad.net/ [2]: https://vpn.mozilla.org/

"Honestly, nothing holds up to ... (VPN provider)"

If you're serious you send a machine, that you own, to a colo provider and you register for service with a corporate entity that you created for just that purpose.

Your name exists nowhere and ... regulatory inquiries are directed to your corporate contact email.

Or, if you feel like that's a heavy burden and you don't attach any value to the physical machine (some old 1U, right ?) then you can just sign up under an assumed corporate name with some colo provider that doesn't care that it is, or is not, an actual corporation and you can pay with your non-AMEX credit card[1] using whatever Mickey Mouse name you feel like.

Trust me - it won't take long to find someone who will take your money.[2]

[1] Only AMEX validates First Last ...

[2] https://www.lowendtalk.com/

Re: NordVPN disables features when you turn off auto-renew

#162

Post by seppin » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 8:48 PM UTC

Hamuko wrote: post #17

s1rech wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are using the network of a hotel or a train station, for instance. Assumption is that you trust that VPN provider of course.

Wouldn't you be better served by your own VPN server?

Yes but deploying a vpn to digitalocean for example made the web unusable. Too many "spam" catches when simply trying to browse the web

Re: NordVPN disables features when you turn off auto-renew

#163

Post by MikeDelta » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 8:51 PM UTC

Honestly, if you are worried about privacy and use a VPN for those reasons, then you should check out the principle of browser fingerprinting [0].

The conclusion is that servers/websites can check so many parameters of your browser that they can produce a (unique) fingerprint based on the settings and drivers on your phone. No VPN or Tor will cover that, only burner phones or pen and paper.

[0] https://coveryourtracks.eff.org

Re: NordVPN disables features when you turn off auto-renew

#164

Post by freebuju » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 8:52 PM UTC

grishka wrote: post #128

notRobot wrote: post #5

Honestly, nothing holds up to Mullvad [1]. They don't even take an email address while creating accounts, and you can pay easily with Bitcoin or even with cash mailed to them. I'm not affiliated, just a very happy customer. Mullvad is also who Mozilla trusts for the Mozilla VPN [2]. You can sign up with that if you'd like Mozilla to get a cut. [1]: https://mullvad.net/ [2]: https://vpn.mozilla.org/

You can't use any commercial VPN service and expect privacy. Those are only good for bypassing geographical restrictions. If you want privacy, buy a VDS and host your own VPN server. It'll cost about the same, and you can use it for other things at no additional cost.

Except most providers worth their salt will require your credit card/paypal for a subscription. This adds another potential loophole for de-anonymization. At least with Mullvad you can pay in crypto or even mail them cash. Though it all depends on what you want to achieve I'd say a trusted VPN is much better than a VPS, esp one located in US or any of the five eyes countries.

Re: NordVPN disables features when you turn off auto-renew

#165

Post by uzakov » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:00 PM UTC

isoprophlex wrote: post #152

uzakov wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would strongly disagree for the following reasons: You can and should differentiate VPN providers. Ways to differentiate them: Have they shared logs in the past, where companies are headquartered, reputation.

Fair point, agreed. I have noticed personally, however, that all people i know that have purchased a vpn subscription don't do this. They simply buy into the FUD. N=1 of course... Maybe the market size has become so large that less savvy users propel the unscrupulous companies to the top?

I think it's exactly the same as when purchasing anything in life. There are better and worse products. Many people will not buy a good product in terms of quality/price or value/price.

> Maybe the market size has become so large that less savvy users propel the unscrupulous companies to the top?

I would say that is the case for many products. Personal example: our family car is nearly 10 years or so old and still going strong, its reliable and good overall. We spent time researching good vehicles on the market then and bought the care after research, it paid off.

Re: NordVPN disables features when you turn off auto-renew

#166

Post by jonny_eh » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:04 PM UTC

MikeDelta wrote: post #163

Honestly, if you are worried about privacy and use a VPN for those reasons, then you should check out the principle of browser fingerprinting [0]. The conclusion is that servers/websites can check so many parameters of your browser that they can produce a (unique) fingerprint based on the settings and drivers on your phone. No VPN or Tor will cover that, only burner phones or pen and paper. [0] https://coveryourtrack…

https://blog.mozilla.org/security/2021/01/26/supercookie-pro...

Re: NordVPN disables features when you turn off auto-renew

#167

Post by Thorentis » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:10 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #161

notRobot wrote: post #5

Honestly, nothing holds up to Mullvad [1]. They don't even take an email address while creating accounts, and you can pay easily with Bitcoin or even with cash mailed to them. I'm not affiliated, just a very happy customer. Mullvad is also who Mozilla trusts for the Mozilla VPN [2]. You can sign up with that if you'd like Mozilla to get a cut. [1]: https://mullvad.net/ [2]: https://vpn.mozilla.org/

"Honestly, nothing holds up to ... (VPN provider)" If you're serious you send a machine, that you own, to a colo provider and you register for service with a corporate entity that you created for just that purpose. Your name exists nowhere and ... regulatory inquiries are directed to your corporate contact email. Or, if you feel like that's a heavy burden and you don't attach any value to the physical machine (some o…

This is far less anonymous than sending cash in the mail to Mullvad. There is a paper trail leading back to you when you register the corporate entity.

Re: NordVPN disables features when you turn off auto-renew

#168

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #157

question for those privacy conscious peeps: When you use multiple browsers, with 1 (FF) used for general browsing setup to blocks fingerprintin, all cookies, js, etc... will the other (Brave, Opera) browsers leak info to web sites, when using FF ?

Not an expert, but:

It depends if the browsers have matching characteristics. If you're not using a VPN, then they can be matched by IP. If you are, then it's down to side-channels which are a pain but usually differ by browser (and perhaps even profile) - but I do wonder if ex. font availability and possibly GPU-based fingerprints wouldn't match. Of course, if your locked-down browser blocks enough then you can solve that.

Re: NordVPN disables features when you turn off auto-renew

#169

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:19 PM UTC

ev1 wrote: post #147

jorblumesea wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really look like garbage from the outside? My impression or understanding was that you could tease out those details (they are torrenting) but not inspect the packets directly (what are they torrenting?)

A proper VPN will completely encapsulate your layer 7 data, so you should not be able to tease out the fact that they are torrenting - it should more or less be an opaque stream. With some protocols you can identify that they are sending VPN traffic to and from a destination, but that should be it, otherwise something has gone horribly wrong in a dangerous way.

Depending on the VPN protocol, you can still fingerprint by size - as I understand it, bandwidth use patterns are actually enough to distinguish things like "streaming video" from "BitTorrent traffic" from "web browsing". IIRC, ex. TOR does a bucket-filling approach to fight this (something along the lines of trying to wait until you've got X bytes to send together to smooth out the packet size, or even inserting garbage to pad out your use).

Re: NordVPN disables features when you turn off auto-renew

#170

Post by michaelmrose » Sat, Feb 06, 2021, 9:30 PM UTC

rsync wrote: post #161

notRobot wrote: post #5

Honestly, nothing holds up to Mullvad [1]. They don't even take an email address while creating accounts, and you can pay easily with Bitcoin or even with cash mailed to them. I'm not affiliated, just a very happy customer. Mullvad is also who Mozilla trusts for the Mozilla VPN [2]. You can sign up with that if you'd like Mozilla to get a cut. [1]: https://mullvad.net/ [2]: https://vpn.mozilla.org/

"Honestly, nothing holds up to ... (VPN provider)" If you're serious you send a machine, that you own, to a colo provider and you register for service with a corporate entity that you created for just that purpose. Your name exists nowhere and ... regulatory inquiries are directed to your corporate contact email. Or, if you feel like that's a heavy burden and you don't attach any value to the physical machine (some o…

For practical purposes the only people who can penetrate a simple vpn service are potentially a government order to start recording your traffic that is legal based on jurisdiction or a dedicated hacker.

It looks to me that NEITHER would be prevented by you using a colocated machine. It's not like your colocation provider is incapable of compromising you and probably would if ordered to do so in a jurisdiction where this act would be legal.

A hacker presumably isn't concerned about whether they are attacking a machine on your desk or in Nebraska.

Over a 5 year time frame your colocated machine would presumably run you between $6600 and $19000 and would have bought you zero additional privacy compared to paying $360 for a vpn in the same jurisdiction.