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Disqus, a dark commenting system

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Re: Disqus, a dark commenting system

#251
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Attention is zero-sum. There are 24 hours in a day. People only spend so much time online. There is no bigger bag or truck.

And? I mean, obviously if you're going to correct me then you know "zero-sum game" refers to game theory. What game is Mr. Typeset playing here?

The game is Attention. Focus. Discoverability. Relevance. Impact.

All are inherently rivalrous

Even discounting any financial returns, howling into the void / winking in the dark fails to accomplish anything if there is no receiver or audience.

Ms. Typeset might be engaging in a form of personal journaling or meditation, but in a world that has so many competing distractions her curation is never shared, or even where perhaps it is but the potential community of interest, and the discovery tools possibly reaching it, are fractured and distracted to the point of dissolution ... the effort to communicate and gains of doing so are lost.

Mind that large audiences really aren't communities -- I'm talking Facebook or national broadcast scale. As Dave Winer observed, conversation doesn't scale very well. Dialogue between two people is its most intense form, and past a handfull of participants or so, what remains is mostly a set of serial monologues. Above 15 or so, the graph starts trending increasingly to a star, with one broadcaster and numerous recievers, collectively an audience. At sufficient scale, selling that audience to those who'd hope to advert its attention to their own message becomes a principle commercialisation model. The baiting message tends to the minimum viable common basis.

At extreme levels of specialisation, such as, say, aa maths PhD, the relevant community might easily fit in a small classroom. Possibly in a single car. My cursory analysis of Google+ communities by size and activity levels suggests diminishing returns above about 10,000 registered members, of whom perhaps 1--10% were highly active, so 100--1,000 participants, roughly within Dunbar's Number range. Extremely large groups are visible but not especially useful --- most seemed overrun with spam and memes.

Pursuit of that audience tends strongly to sacrifice or ignore nuanced, specialist, or niche interests, to the point of actively trying to steer potential members of such groups to the larger, and more monetisable, vulgar pool.

My own seeking of expressive outlets is an increasingly frustrating trade-off between the expressivity of the tools themselves (mostly formatting and media capabilities), technical hosting issues, audience discovery and cultivation, search, and related concerns. I'm hoping to learn, share, and discover. The sense that this used to be more viable back in the days when I used Usenet and mailing lists may be a Golden Age illusion, but its a damnedably persistent one.

Re: Disqus, a dark commenting system

#252
post #198
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks a lot for the offer but I think I'm going to decline for now. It's nothing personal or even related to your comment service specifically. For the sake of transparency here's the questions going through my mind and how I arrived at this decision based on using the free version of Disqus: - A lot of people have a Disqus account and having a low barrier of entry to comment is important. When most folks don't need…

Cool. Thanks for the feedback. Most of the objections have been solved with Remarkbox. Users do not need an account to comment. We email you when new comments happens you can control how often by modifying your notification settings (immediately, daily, weekly digests) The population of people with ad blockers is low, for example I'm a tech person but I do not use ad-blockers. I hope you reconsider, I'd offer you whi…

No problem. Here's a few follow up questions that aren't listed in your FAQ if you don't mind answering them. Maybe some of them can become FAQ items later.

What do you do to combat spam and what does the work flow look like to moderate it?

Is it possible to change the word "remark" to "reply" as an end user?

What does the work flow look like for users to edit their posts? Can they edit them forever or is it time locked sort of like HN's comments?

If a user deletes a reply, do all of the child replies get deleted or does the original parent reply that was deleted get renamed to "deleted" while keeping children replies in tact?

Is there a way to restrict users from posting links unless they have an account or are pre-approved? Do you mark those links as nofollow, ugc or something else?

Can you disable certain things like image tags so users can't embed images or other media (video, iframes, etc.)?

Is there a way to black list specific user names from being registered?

Can unverified users edit or delete their own messages? If so, how does that work?

If an unverified person creates an account later on, will their original unverified comments get changed to their new username?

Are registered user names from verified users protected from ever being used again?

How long are users verified for after using the magic link? What does the user experience look like for verified users who end up being logged out?

What would the migration process look like from Disqus to Remarkbox? Disqus doesn't give site owners the email addresses of users, which makes me think I would end up losing who posted what for thousands of comments since they would all be classified as "unverified" comments?

For posts with hundreds of comments, is there pagination or a load more feature?

Is it possible to lazy load the comments based on the scroll position of the device viewing the site? For example, your iframe isn't loaded until it's close to being visible? If so, is this an option you can turn on and off?

Is it possible to customize the date output of comments? I noticed it outputs dates like 8y, 213d ago which in my opinion is a bit unnatural.

Is there a way to customize the "link" functionality? Right now after clicking it, there's a jarring user experience where it auto-scrolls the page. I'm not sure what the intent of this is. Is it to prepare for a user to manually copy the link? Could that be replaced with a copy link to clipboard?

Have you given any thought on making a specific comment's date output the permalink href instead of the user name? I clicked a user name thinking it would show me a list of their comments but it was really their specific comment. I know you can click the avatar but it's really confusing because clicking a user name everywhere else would typically bring you to a user's profile, not the specific thing they created.

If a user verifies an account on site A, will they already be verified on site B? If so, is there a way to disable the link to show a user's comments since it would now be listing their comments from other sites.

From what region of the world do you host the embed link and serve the iframe from? Is there a CDN in front of it?

Can you get the count of comments near the remark comment box itself? When viewing a post that has a Disqus embed you can output the comment count above it. It's basically a part of the widget. That's a nice number to have.

Do you have a list of sites using Remarkbox that aren't your own sites?

The preview functionality is a bit wobbly, it jumps around a lot based on what you're typing. For example if I put a, b, c, d on 4 different lines it takes almost a full second for it to jump to 1 line since it's Markdown. Is there an option to make single line breaks be treated as
new lines so it's a bit more WYSIWYG?

Do you have a public status page showing the uptime of your platform?

Edit:

I hope you don't mind the suggestions. I'm not trying to come off as one of those users who expect the world for nothing.

Just letting you know that personally some of these things are barriers that would prevent me from switching over and I like what you're trying to do, so I'm more than happy to take the time out to list them out.

If they get implemented, that's cool but if not no worries.

Re: Disqus, a dark commenting system

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm conflicted about the free tier thing. On the one hand, I get that personal/non-commercial sites don't generate revenue - so shelling out for a comment system is unattractive. On the other hand: the whole reason that shady, dark pattern, privacy killers like disqus exist is because people won't pay for stuff. It's at least partly cultural. We'll pay for hosting, or internet access. Why won't we pay for other servi…

> It's at least partly cultural. We'll pay for hosting, or internet access. Why won't we pay for other services if they're valuable to us? 1. Too many separate subscriptions become hard to manage. Example: the banks in my country don't allow direct access of my account movements to any budgeting apps so I have to tally everything manually because I want to track my expenses. There is a business idea here somewhere: a…

The problem is majority doesn't care about tracking regardless of free or paid. And the MBAs will push for as hard monetization as possible.

Re: Disqus, a dark commenting system

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that vein, I'd suggest Radio Paradise. Also add free, listener supported, and has been streaming amazing mixes for over 20 years. https://radioparadise.com/

Likewise, you might enjoy: CHIRP Radio (Chicago): https://chirpradio.org 4ZZZ (Brisbane): https://www.4zzzfm.org.au Both are ad-free, other than local community orgs and the occasional local independent business plug, and funded by listener donations. Big bonus: huge variety in their playlists, with the DJs playing whatever they feel like.

I didn't forget you guys, thanks these are all great and added to my combined playlist of radios. I didn't get around to CHIRP until this morning and was greeted with some Sisters of Mercy love as soon as I tuned in, that's a win right there. :) Much appreciated for pointers.

Re: Disqus, a dark commenting system

#255
post #126
post #94

Title should probably have [Advert] prefix or something. That said, I deleted my Disqus account as part of a general cleanup and I'm glad I did. The web needs to shift more to a model where people pay openly for services; ideally with micropayments or a Spotify-like subscription to ensure a large user base. Free products are ok as a gateway to the paid product, but not if the business model relies on selling data (ei…

We’ve been saying that for years, but nothing gets done. My team and I went ahead to describe how it will work, and will be releasing it in 2022 after building it openly on GitHub: https://qbix.com/QBUX/whitepaper.html#DIGITAL-MEDIA-AND-CONT... But watch the silent downvotes for this comment... and this is part of the reason why it won’t happen unless someone braves ridicule even of the very technologists who are sup…

On this site, at least, you will have fewer downvotes if you don't speculate about downvote motivation.

Re: Disqus, a dark commenting system

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's at least partly cultural. We'll pay for hosting, or internet access. Why won't we pay for other services if they're valuable to us? 1. Too many separate subscriptions become hard to manage. Example: the banks in my country don't allow direct access of my account movements to any budgeting apps so I have to tally everything manually because I want to track my expenses. There is a business idea here somewhere: a…

The problem is majority doesn't care about tracking regardless of free or paid. And the MBAs will push for as hard monetization as possible.

True. Hence at one point we all have to own the problem and start standing behind our ideals.

Re: Disqus, a dark commenting system

#257
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And? I mean, obviously if you're going to correct me then you know "zero-sum game" refers to game theory. What game is Mr. Typeset playing here?

The game is Attention. Focus. Discoverability. Relevance. Impact. All are inherently rivalrous Even discounting any financial returns, howling into the void / winking in the dark fails to accomplish anything if there is no receiver or audience. Ms. Typeset might be engaging in a form of personal journaling or meditation, but in a world that has so many competing distractions her curation is never shared, or even wher…

So I'll just assume that you intended to answer the question, and that your response contains your strongest argument. From what I can tell, the only complaint that makes sense is with regard to community building platforms splintering potential collaborators/readers. I can somewhat agree with that, but it has absolutely nothing to do with an attention economy or corporate market capture. I can't think of a time that I was searching for something related to an interest, but instead got trapped in a dead Yahoo discussion board - hypnotized by erectile dysfunction spam. I just blast right through and eventually end up on some dude's blog with a tilde in the url, on more than one occasion this has ended up as a back and forth over email where we both come out ahead. Now I'll admit that my interests aren't mainstream, and I may not be in touch with the average consumer... but their interests are mainstream - so they are by default already catered to.

Re: Disqus, a dark commenting system

#258
post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The game is Attention. Focus. Discoverability. Relevance. Impact. All are inherently rivalrous Even discounting any financial returns, howling into the void / winking in the dark fails to accomplish anything if there is no receiver or audience. Ms. Typeset might be engaging in a form of personal journaling or meditation, but in a world that has so many competing distractions her curation is never shared, or even wher…

So I'll just assume that you intended to answer the question, and that your response contains your strongest argument. From what I can tell, the only complaint that makes sense is with regard to community building platforms splintering potential collaborators/readers. I can somewhat agree with that, but it has absolutely nothing to do with an attention economy or corporate market capture. I can't think of a time that…

it has absolutely nothing to do with an attention economy or corporate market capture.

I disagree strongly. My complaints are not merely theoretical. Addressed in the Reddit post below and the three internally-linked articles. That subreddit itself is a failed experiment at community-building and fostering. One of several. (There's also been the rare modest success.)

https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/8rq08y/i_wont_...

There was a time that intelligent conversation was ... reasonably easy to find online. You'd head to the appropriate Usenet group, later an email list, or, for a time, Slashdot.

Hacker News seems to be about as close to that as I can find at the moment. It has numerous flaws, and it definitely has its own niche. The moderation philosophy is excellent and the practice nearly always lives up to the goals.

I came to have a strong appreciation for the site by voicing disagreements to dang, generally in email, and though I sometimes disagree with specific decisions, the actions which are made are in general fair and serve the site's goals. The increasing politicisation over the past four-plus years has clearly been problematic, but HN's breasting of that surge has been largely admirable. Not that the occasional thread doesn't fall flat, and not that there aren't rampant attempts at manipulation. But as a whole, and compared to other platforms, the bottom's not fallen out, and the site's not become a complete cesspit.

Usenet was small. I've a copy of John Quarterman's The Matrix, an overview of online conversation forums and networks published in 1990 (it covers Usenet, it does not include WWW or Gopher). That includes DEC's estimates of Usenet activity. The total population with access was ~880,000, and I believe fewer than 150,000 active participants (posting activity). HN alone, a minuscule site by modern standards, is roughly comparable in size (precise statistics don't seem available, though this is my general understanding).

Usenet also had high barriers to entry, though based largely on interest and aptitude (by way of university campus access) rather than market-based rationing. Campus-based administration also helped moderate behaviour, though more overt mechanisms had to be developed with time, and ultimately Usenet could not scale to the hygenic-controls needs of a multimillion-user network, on several fronts, so discussion migrated elsewhere. (Yes, a tiny fraction remains on Usenet, but for all intents, it's dead, Jim. https://old.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/3c3xyu/why_use...)

It's not that you get trapped in some ED mutual admiration society. It's that the folks trying to launch or join an earnest discussion ... often cannot.

Re: Disqus, a dark commenting system

#259
post #252
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. Thanks for the feedback. Most of the objections have been solved with Remarkbox. Users do not need an account to comment. We email you when new comments happens you can control how often by modifying your notification settings (immediately, daily, weekly digests) The population of people with ad blockers is low, for example I'm a tech person but I do not use ad-blockers. I hope you reconsider, I'd offer you whi…

No problem. Here's a few follow up questions that aren't listed in your FAQ if you don't mind answering them. Maybe some of them can become FAQ items later. What do you do to combat spam and what does the work flow look like to moderate it? Is it possible to change the word "remark" to "reply" as an end user? What does the work flow look like for users to edit their posts? Can they edit them forever or is it time loc…

Hey we've been talking over email, the plan is to answer these questions at https://faq.remarkbox.com

Re: Disqus, a dark commenting system

#260

I have (had) a Disqus account that I connected to via my google account. I say had because I haven't been able to login in a year or so via firefox. I just get a page that says "There was an error submitting the form. If you're having difficulty, try repeating the action on https://disqus.com " with an annoying meme gift on the background. Luckily the title of the page says "Embed: CSRF verification failed (403)" but…

There's https://epiverse.co/, which automatically loads comments for the current URL from Reddit/HN -- so basically what you wished for, but piggybacking on an existing ecosystem.
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