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Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

bloomberg.com

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Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#131

Post by School-Cotton »

trixie_ wrote: post #34
matkoniecz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> beats other stores of value in almost every metric. Which metrics you selected so crypto beats following in "almost every metric"? - real estate - gold - $ in cash - $ in a bank account - stocks

Metrics as in how easy is it to store and send, how resistant is it to inflation and manipulation. - Land - Can't send it. - Gold - Physical so more difficult to store, secure, send, and verify. - Cash - Easy to manipulate by the government. How many trillions printed for coronavirus? I wouldn't hold too much of it. - Stocks - Cant send it. More shares can be created by the board of directors. Crypto is made to do on…

Well, technically you can own a gold ETF rather than physical, and whenever you want to send value to someone, sell it and wire them the money (free on Fidelity and takes on the order of as long as a few Bitcoin confirmations). This is not too different in effect from being able to “send gold”.

Anyway... despite the theoretical limitations of cash, hard currencies in practice have proven much, much more stable than Bitcoin. There hasn’t been hyperinflation in any of the major hard currencies (USD, CNY, GBP, EUR/D-Mark, CHF) since the invention of the fiat system.

You can argue that cash can be manipulated and is therefore a worse store of value than Bitcoin but it simply isn’t backed up by concrete evidence in reality

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#132

Post by [deleted] »

modeless wrote: post #49
MagicalTux wrote: post #35

Being directly involved in this I'm not going to comment as of the veracity of the article myself, but rather point to a response of when this was posted on twitter (look at the extra responses for some fact checking): https://twitter.com/wizsecurity/status/1355973512012292096

For those who don't know, MagicalTux is Mark Karpeles, owner and CEO of Mt Gox. Assuming this is his real account. And for what it's worth, I agree that this is a bad article based on what I know about the situation. Bloomberg reporting in general is questionable these days if you ask me. I don't trust them since the false Supermicro hack story (never retracted BTW) and I've seen several other bad stories from them s…

[deleted]

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#133

Post by tlrobinson »

otoburb wrote: post #5

>> “It could’ve been a trillion-dollar company,” Vessenes said. “It’s so sad.” The current $16 billion CoinLab claim against Mt. Gox is based on what the company thinks their portion of Mt. Gox would be worth if it had been managed well, he said. Quoting this part of the article to emphasize the absurdity of CoinLab's assertion. >> Peter Vessenes has spent years trying to recoup lost coins This article byline is stra…

I know very little about this but shouldn’t customer deposits be handled separately from other creditors? Why should CoinLab get anything?

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#134

Post by [deleted] »

trixie_ wrote: post #31
TylerE wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is nothing anyone could say that would convince you aren't on the OneTruePath(tm) is there?

I would love to have an intelligent debate with you. To respond to your original post. Many people, myself included, find crypto an easier, faster, cheaper way to send large amounts of money versus ACH, wire transfers and western union.

[deleted]

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#135

Post by dogweather »

MagicalTux wrote: post #35

Being directly involved in this I'm not going to comment as of the veracity of the article myself, but rather point to a response of when this was posted on twitter (look at the extra responses for some fact checking): https://twitter.com/wizsecurity/status/1355973512012292096

> Being directly involved in this I'm not going to comment as of the veracity...

Why not? Just be transparent.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#136

Post by matkoniecz »

trixie_ wrote: post #34
matkoniecz wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> beats other stores of value in almost every metric. Which metrics you selected so crypto beats following in "almost every metric"? - real estate - gold - $ in cash - $ in a bank account - stocks

Metrics as in how easy is it to store and send, how resistant is it to inflation and manipulation. - Land - Can't send it. - Gold - Physical so more difficult to store, secure, send, and verify. - Cash - Easy to manipulate by the government. How many trillions printed for coronavirus? I wouldn't hold too much of it. - Stocks - Cant send it. More shares can be created by the board of directors. Crypto is made to do on…

So for example land is counterexample to claim that "crypto beats other stores of value in almost every metric."?

Especially given that you can sell it for something used locally and send that? (there is no need to store value and send something using the same method).

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#137

Post by redegg »

MagicalTux wrote: post #94
zoba wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mark, the security errors in Mt Gox cost me sums of money that would have completely changed the life of myself and my family. Mostly I have moved on from this, but occasionally I multiply my Mt Gox holdings by the current price of Bitcoin and imagine how life could be. I have never heard you express sorrow for the individuals whose lives you so negatively impacted. I have no idea if you have plans to make amends for…

I am sorry for the situation and the way things and have expressed sorrow continuously, starting with the bankruptcy press conference, and on multiple occasions. I have been helping people who contacted me or who posted on reddit, been in touch with MtGoxLegal and other creditor groups, and generally tried to keep everyone aware of their rights and needed procedures to be into the bankruptcy. I also have made sure th…

> You will likely receive more than you initially deposited into MtGox through the bankruptcy, but I do not know what you call "significant recompense."

I was one of those claimants who sold approximately the account value north of 1000 Bitcoins to bring myself in what I thought was a better position when all of your withdrawal methods were blocked. I attempted to withdraw BTC into BitcoinBuilder, but you guys had my account flagged for additional review from a previous TX I had made weeks ago. I had literally zero other options and you guys locked up all of my balance.

Some recompense could be given to now fiat claimants who sold all of their BTC holdings into USD _the day_ that Mt.Gox shut down. There were quite a handful of individuals who did with the same rationale this in the hours leading up to the website shutdown. I'm pretty sure they are the minority of claimant cases looking at /r/MtgoxInsolvency posts.

Today, the difference in market value those few hours for me would have been approximately been $7.9 MM vs. ~500k USD + penalties. There were zero guidance the days that you had your withdrawals blocked off, and any communication of what was going on especially in those few hours would have made such a difference in the 7 years that we/I had our money locked up.

Please look into these accounts that had this sort of activity _in the hours_ leading up to Mt. Gox's shutdown. If any group would be significantly impacted by any recompense, it would be us.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#138

Post by chaostheory »

optimalsolver wrote: post #79
askmike wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very different subject, I don't see any overlap

In terms of losses, Tether will be to Mt. Gox what Little Boy was to a firecracker.

Any other predictions?

Surprisingly, there still are very few people who are away of this ticking time bomb.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#139

Post by matkoniecz »

School-Cotton wrote: post #131
trixie_ wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metrics as in how easy is it to store and send, how resistant is it to inflation and manipulation. - Land - Can't send it. - Gold - Physical so more difficult to store, secure, send, and verify. - Cash - Easy to manipulate by the government. How many trillions printed for coronavirus? I wouldn't hold too much of it. - Stocks - Cant send it. More shares can be created by the board of directors. Crypto is made to do on…

Well, technically you can own a gold ETF rather than physical, and whenever you want to send value to someone, sell it and wire them the money (free on Fidelity and takes on the order of as long as a few Bitcoin confirmations). This is not too different in effect from being able to “send gold”. Anyway... despite the theoretical limitations of cash, hard currencies in practice have proven much, much more stable than B…

There was no hyperinflation, but inflation is high enough to matter.

Still, overall damage seems far lower than risks of mistakes, hacks, crashed and scams overrunning crypto. Maybe it is not true for super experts, but for average person loses on inflation will be far lower than overall damage from various dangers present in BTC and other.

Re: Mt. Gox demise as told by a Bitcoin insider

#140

Post by redegg »

MagicalTux wrote: post #35

Being directly involved in this I'm not going to comment as of the veracity of the article myself, but rather point to a response of when this was posted on twitter (look at the extra responses for some fact checking): https://twitter.com/wizsecurity/status/1355973512012292096

> You will likely receive more than you initially deposited into MtGox through the bankruptcy, but I do not know what you call "significant recompense."

I was one of those claimants who sold approximately the account value north of 1000 Bitcoins to bring myself in what I thought was a better position when all of your withdrawal methods were blocked. I attempted to withdraw BTC into BitcoinBuilder, but you guys had my account flagged for additional review from a previous TX I had made weeks ago. I had literally zero other options and you guys locked up all of my balance.

Some recompense could be given to now fiat claimants who sold all of their BTC holdings into USD _the day_ that Mt.Gox shut down. There were quite a handful of individuals who did with the same rationale this in the hours leading up to the website shutdown. I'm pretty sure they are the minority of claimant cases looking at /r/MtgoxInsolvency posts.

Today, the difference in market value those few hours for me would have been approximately been $7.9 MM vs. ~500k USD + penalties. There were zero guidance the days that you had your withdrawals blocked off, and any communication of what was going on especially in those few hours would have made such a difference in the 7 years that we/I had our money locked up.

Please look into these accounts that had this sort of activity _in the hours_ leading up to Mt. Gox's shutdown. If any group would be significantly impacted by any recompense, it would be us

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