Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released • Hacker News Board

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#61

Post by rendall » Fri, Feb 05, 2021, 6:57 PM UTC

ralusek wrote: post #42

rendall wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should the assaulted be happy with the fact that the inmate will get a job? Heck yeah! If civil penalties have been assessed, how else are they going to get paid? Crazy how most Americans think even the smallest crime should mean life in prison plus anal rape

What's crazy is that you think that most Americans think even the smallest crime should mean life in prison plus anal rape.

HN is marvelous, in that even the slightest hyperbole will be pointed out as incorrect. By "marvelous" of course I mean tedious

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#62

Post by barrkel » Fri, Feb 05, 2021, 6:58 PM UTC

slibhb wrote: post #46

barrkel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think retribution is the principal component of justice? That seems very wrong to me. Justice is a deep concept - https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/justice/ is an overview, and it's not short - but on plain sight, I'd say that since it is the public, through the medium of government, that enforces justice, it should do so with a utilitarian view. Society has a vital interest in reintegrating people wh…

> What makes you think retribution is the principal component of justice? That seems very wrong to me. It seems right to me. In my opinion, justice comes from the concept of reciprocity. In other words, if someone does bad, it is just that bad is done to them (retribution). The reverse is also true: it is just that good things occur to people who do good deeds. > Justice is a deep concept - https://plato.stanford.edu…

Sure, it's not a closed question. I'm mostly pointing out, as an example, the fact that society operates the mechanics of justice these days, it is the interests of society that are paramount. Making individuals whole is a part of that, but avoiding repetition is also vital, or else the punishment plays a part in causing crime later.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#63

Post by StillBored » Fri, Feb 05, 2021, 6:58 PM UTC

This is nice and all, but why is everyone focused on "coding" trade schools? Can you really learn enough to make $200k a year in a "boot camp" style coding school? If so, why not doctors and lawyers too?

So, i'm not a big supporter of these things because I think it trivializes the amount of effort it actually takes to be a useful team member. The people I work with are doing the logical equivalent of rebuilding the flight control surfaces of a helicopter while its flying in formation. These aren't the kinds of skills you learn in 6 weeks. Many of us have years of formal schooling combined with 10x that in personal learning hours before we even landed our first jobs. Add on a decade+ of professional work experience/etc. I'm not trying to sound arrogant, but I suspect that if someone tried to measure the knowledge required for some of these jobs people on this board hold, it would dwarf pretty much all but a few other professions. Its also not to say, that its not possible to be productive with a couple years of HS/AP level comp-sci classes and a year or two of toy programs (I landed my first programming job in HS, making barely more than minimum wage). Only that those jobs are the floor, and much harder to come by now that everyone and their brother is learning coding.

So frankly, some people have the interest/drive/aptitude into making software engineering their life, and some peoples strengths lie elsewhere. I think its doing everyone a disservice not to provide other options to prisoners, be that AC repair, or law degrees.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#64

Post by sokoloff » Fri, Feb 05, 2021, 6:59 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #36

sokoloff wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I look over the interview and coding exercise results from entry-level applicants, I can understand how some of the candidates will apply and interview a lot before landing a role. There’s a pretty sharp clustering into “can very likely code” and “did not demonstrate they could productively code”.

For many entry level tech jobs today, I think you'll find the bar is considerably higher.

If the bar is considerably higher than "can very likely code", then I question whether those roles are actually entry-level.

We hire dozens of entry level roles per year. That's our bar (of course, coupled with "is authorized to work where the role is").

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#65

Post by dudul » Fri, Feb 05, 2021, 7:01 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #57

emidln wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience hiring for jr webdev and full stack roles, about 1 in 5 people could pass fizzbuzz (even when the mathematical algorithm was explained in writing). About 1 in 100 completed the basic web app demo (untimed, take home, expected to take between 30 minutes and 2 hours, in any language, with a test suite included as a shell script). I often hired the first person even remotely qualified with the intent on…

Well how much were you all paying?

What does it have to do with the quality of the candidates? Salaries are often not discussed before the end of the process, especially for junior roles where applicants can rarely force the hiring manager/recruiter to disclose a budget.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#66

Post by dudul » Fri, Feb 05, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #24

sokoloff wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Running a background check doesn’t mean you can’t accept certain negative content in that background. A background check produces information not a decision .

Usually a background check just means a credit check.

I meant it as a check for criminal record.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#67

Post by whimsicalism » Fri, Feb 05, 2021, 7:04 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #64

whimsicalism wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For many entry level tech jobs today, I think you'll find the bar is considerably higher.

If the bar is considerably higher than "can very likely code", then I question whether those roles are actually entry-level. We hire dozens of entry level roles per year. That's our bar (of course, coupled with "is authorized to work where the role is").

For the typical company in California, you can expect to be tested on algorithmic knowledge for an entry-level job.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#68

Post by sokoloff » Fri, Feb 05, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

whimsicalism wrote: post #67

sokoloff wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the bar is considerably higher than "can very likely code", then I question whether those roles are actually entry-level. We hire dozens of entry level roles per year. That's our bar (of course, coupled with "is authorized to work where the role is").

For the typical company in California, you can expect to be tested on algorithmic knowledge for an entry-level job.

Is that "typical" or "top 10 highest-paying" company?

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#69

Post by whimsicalism » Fri, Feb 05, 2021, 7:07 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #68

whimsicalism wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the typical company in California, you can expect to be tested on algorithmic knowledge for an entry-level job.

Is that "typical" or "top 10 highest-paying" company?

> Is that "typical" or "top 10 highest-paying" company?

Many, many more than "top 10 highest-paying." But yes, generally for six figure entry level roles.

Re: Program teaches prisoners coding so they can land tech jobs once released

#70

Post by lldbg » Fri, Feb 05, 2021, 7:11 PM UTC

crispyambulance wrote: post #59

lldbg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I advocated that all sentences should be for life, and I don't get how you got to there from what I wrote.

You were complaining that inmates would deign to find work after being incarcerated. > Should the assaulted be happy with the fact that the inmate will get a job? YES, everyone should be happy if ex-felons are able to find work after leaving prison. Otherwise, they just go back their previous behaviors (eg ~80% recidivism). If they can't get work, that's effectively a "life sentence".

I was not complaining about anything. They aren't ex-felons, after they are released, they are felons.

I do not think you understood my original comment, since you keep quoting that sentence only. Where is the restitution to the aggrieved party? The assaulted, the robbed, the beaten, the raped? You pay for what you do, and if your enterprise is criminal, you pay in time behind bars. Personal responsibility. Why would anyone want to hire a wife-beater? There are millions of upstanding citizens out of work ...