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New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

arstechnica.com

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Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#411

Post by zamadatix »

disabled wrote: post #337
zamadatix wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah the idea of having a better virtual office really isn't as great as it seems when you try it out. Basically extra latency to not see all of the stuff on your desk and have the entire world skip frames when you do something that maxes out your CPU or GPU. Not to mention the aformentioned image-in-an-image quality problems.

I think this can be solved. This may surprise many, but I use virtual reality for all of my heavy reading, without any issue whatsoever. It basically feels like I am reading on a movie screen. While my use case is different than most, I personally have a print related disability (severe convergence insufficiency), which requires the use of assistive technology. Anyways, the app I use is called Retinopsy Look VR, whic…

I think specialized use cases are an absolute hit on VR devices. Where else can you get consumer priced hardware that you can create a completely custom tuned to the user version without needing custom hardware? That being said I never did manage to find a customized version that was more efficient for the common use case, after all monitors/books/phone screens are already the customized optimized consumer hardware for most people.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#412

Post by naravara »

jimmySixDOF wrote: post #366
naravara wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is described as a joint AR/VR device. I don’t expect we’d be totally cut off, probably more like an overlay of computery stuff while still being able to see the real world behind it. Sort of like a virtual screen.

Correct, it sounds like they are getting the AR using a 'passthrough' mode stitched together from the multiple cameras and some sensor fusion to give you an eye-level perspective live video feed they can manipulate with all manner of neat effects. Wearing an HMD is always going to disconnect your attention from where you are and teleport it to someplace not shared by those around you, there is no way around that and…

The real challenge, is going to be some way to not look like a dork while using it in public. If I had to have faith in anyone to design something that could square that circle it would be Apple (and maybe Sony). But it's a tall order.

Of course, inputs are weird too. Would it need to come with a pocketable keyboard or something?

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#413

Post by acct776 »

randyrand wrote: post #242
acct776 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you say that?

performance of javascript cannot match c++. Wasm helps. you also need state of the art decoders. And really, full GPU compute access. streaming will be a problem for awhile to come. youll want to download in advance, something that the web is not yet set up for. It’s doable, certainly. But the web will make most things harder. When smartphones came about h264 was already quite far along in adoption (released in 2003)…

WASM doesn't just help, it and PWA (progressive web apps) will be exactly what you're looking for - for this and numerous other things.

Google/Android is on board, Microsoft is making Outlook a PWA, so they're on board.

All up to Apple to enjoy some pressure and get with the times.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#414

Post by acct776 »

blkhp19 wrote: post #283
TheEnder8 wrote: post #265

This is an intentional leak. Apple is trying to see what the reaction is. They've got some negative press recently for pricing things a little too high (say a $1k monitor stand or $700 wheels). They're watching to see what the reaction to the rumor is. If people say 'no one would ever pay that', then they'll dial it back a bit. If the reaction is 'eh, maybe for those specs', then full steam ahead. Either way, they ca…

Seems like a conspiracy theory. Apple has years of experience creating products that people love at all different price points (original iPhone was crazy expensive, for example). If the product is legitimately better than everything else on the market, it doesn't matter how expensive it is on initial launch.

Absurd.

You think massive companies don't price their overpriced things with price-elasticity in mind?!

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#415

Post by swalsh »

_coveredInBees wrote: post #240
Balgair wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having done a fair bit of AR/VR work in medical and industrial settings, I've always thought the 'killer app' of VR is not in gaming. It's this very weekend: The Super Bowl. Well, not the Super Bowl precisely, but in experiences like sports or other time/space limited events. Sitting ring-side for the next big match. Or at the 50-yard line at the Super Bowl. Or at the finish line of the 100-m dash. All for, I dunno,…

Ehh. I've owned a VR headset for a long time now, and I think many people underestimate how fundamentally isolating being in VR is. Humans are social creatures and unless you live by yourself and want to escape into VR, you're a lot more likely to enjoy watching the big game with friends and family so you can shoot the shit, and share the experience. Don't get me wrong... VR is and can be a lot of fun, but I just don…

It really does depend on the app, I was once playing the game Hotdogs Horseshoes and Handgrenades. It has this western level which is wide open. But I really hated it, it felt really isolated. The echos only made things worse.

But Onward VR feels really social.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#416

Post by swalsh »

dahfizz wrote: post #401
mrkstu wrote: post #397

The most interesting thing about this is what it says about the work Apple has been putting into graphics hardware. Dual 8k displays that I assume are being driven by Apple graphics hardware. Lots of R&D for future M1s or discrete cards for Mac Pros.

> Apple will liberally use an already-known VR technique that involves using eye-tracking to render objects in the user's periphery at a lower fidelity than what the user is focusing on. I would be shocked if this is anything but a gimmick, with all sorts of upscaling and rendering tricks. I very highly doubt apple is all of a sudden the producer of the best gpu in the world, with a wide margin. Nvidia claims their 3…

> upscaling and rendering tricks.

Just a note, Nvidia DLSS 2.0 is so good, that it doesn't really even matter if it's "just a trick". I wouldn't discount upscaling via AI.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#417

Post by zamalek »

mparramon wrote: post #231
zamalek wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that the 90FPS benchmark is merely required to achieve "presence," which is the phenomenon of the brain accepting the virtual reality as reality. Higher framerates are always beneficial (as this also reduces latency). > 420Gbps I assume foveated compression (a pet idea of mine that I have no doubt someone else also has) is probably the only way to realistically deliver the stream to the HMD (assuming tha…

When you say "foveated compression" do you mean >Apple will liberally use an already-known VR technique that involves using eye-tracking to render objects in the user's periphery at a lower fidelity than what the user is focusing on. ?

No foveated compression is not foveated rendering. It is using the same general idea for a different area of the problem: a higher bitrate (on the wire, or across the wireless link) for in-fovea.

Due to latency, you can't render the fovea area only; you need to cover quite a bit more in case the eye moves between submitting the command buffer and the final image being ready.

Compression can happen much later in the process, where the latency is much more predictable or even fixed. This is useful because massive bandwidth is easiest along traces, harder along wires and hardest wirelessly.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#418

Post by everly »

jayd16 wrote: post #263
everly wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not true at all, off the top of my head there was: -WordLens, which could translate and overlay text in different languages -Star Chart, which overlayed the name of the star/planet/constellation you were looking at -Don’t remember the name of the app, but it would tell you the color hex code of whatever you focused the lens on Several others that I can’t think of. I agree that a smart watch overlaps in terms o…

The display did not augment reality, it was simply a small display in your view. It also did not spatially scan but it did know your rough location and where north was. It did things a smartphone could do but much worse. It's main advantage over a phone was that it was always on and didn't need a hand to hold it, which are key benefits of a smart watch.

Ok but if you are looking through that small display and you are seeing digital labels placed on real items that you are looking at, how is that not augmented reality?

Like I said, there’s definitely overlap but you’re way underselling some key features. Smartwatch also can’t take a photo of whatever you’re looking at simply by winking.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#419

Post by swalsh »

fuzzybear3965 wrote: post #300
ksec wrote: post #273

Dual 8K Resolution, I am assuming it wont be 60Hz, it will need to be 90 or 120hz. I am not even sure top of the line PC can do that today. Even Dual 4K at consistent 120fps is pushing the limit. At VR headset range with 8K Per eye is a display that is nearly 3000ppi. My guess is that 8K is the wrong figure and it is actually derived from 3000ppi. Which is similar to Varjo [1] HMD. At lastly, this is "The Information…

Why will it need to be 90 or 120 Hz?

60 hz in VR feels disorienting. I recently upgraded my video card to an RTX 3090, which allowed me to finally go from 90hz to 120hz using my Index. It was incredible how much the experience improved. I used to have a vive, and when I first got the Index the headset felt pretty similar. But once I improved the refresh rate it was a night and day difference in feel.

Re: New report on Apple’s VR headset: 8K in each eye, potential $3k price tag

#420

Post by intrasight »

t-writescode wrote: post #152
intrasight wrote: post #78

Folks here are discussing the difference between AR and VR. My own take is that it's a difference of implementation. Quality VR with quality external cameras is going to give you a MUCH better experience than would AR glasses, and can of course do many things that VR glasses could not. I do think that AR glasses are much more practical and will have broader applicability. But perhaps not so much after a great VR impl…

VR is fail-deadly, AR is fail-safe by design and there's no way of getting around that. When VR fails, it's a black screen covering your head, whereas AR is the world around you. There are many circumstances where AR is far better than VR, even with perfect VR

So you take them off when they fail. And file a bug report.
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