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The endless browser wars

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111–120 of 242 posts

Re: The endless browser wars

#111
> The larger problem, though, is that it's not at all clear that Firefox will remain a viable alternative to Chrome. Its market share has been falling for years, and not everybody is pleased with the directions that the Mozilla Foundation has taken.

I'm disappointed by how many people cling to Chrome/Chromium under the justification that they don't like where Mozilla is going. If you can't tolerate Firefox because of Mozilla's problems, how can you possibly stomach Chrome/Chromium with Google at the wheel?

I believe browser diversity is healthy for the world wide web. I don't want Firefox to become dominant either, but right now there is a short supply of browsers which are independent from Chromium. I don't want the W3C to be replaced by the Chromium Project.

I believe Firefox is a good enough browser to go toe-to-toe with Chrome. It and it's developer are not without problems. However, at this point I'd use Firefox even if Mozilla was just as bad as Google because I think the diversity is worth it.

Re: The endless browser wars

#112
post #78
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome to Edge is just trading one monopolist vendor lock-in for another.

Have people forgotten that edge is chromium already? https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-edge/download-...

"Just trading one monopolist vendor lock-in for the same monopolist vendor lock-in, but now wearing a fake mustache."

I was originally pretty excited about Edge, even as a non-Windows user. I'm not sad to see IE go. But times have changed, and the balance of power has shifted. Now that IE is no longer dominant, simply losing it only worsens the browser oligopoly. Replacing it with a new rendering engine that's designed from the ground up to be standards compliant, though, makes things better. It could have meant that Firefox could once again have had an actual ally in trying to prop up a free and open Web.

Microsoft giving up on Edge's rendering engine and replacing it with Chromium, though, means that, ironically, the death of IE ultimately served to further exactly the bad situation that it once emblematized.

Re: The endless browser wars

#113
post #86
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that Firefox HAS created a new rendering engine, but people don't switch. It has nothing to do with technology, people wont even try to switch. Some for fanboyism, some because they would have to adapt, some don't even know what browser is. What I do consider staggering is how many technically capable people are not prepared to make a switch. Google is slowly closing down the lock-down trap they have nur…

I'm afraid Firefox has gotten to a point where it is too niche to recover. The last time I checked, 80+% of https://webcompat.com's reports were sites that were broken in FF, not because it is less standards compliant than the competition, but just because there was no testing. Mozilla had been courting devs with MDN, ever improving dev tools and sexy tech (Servo) for years, with some success, although they weren't t…

> Degooglified Chromium was already the way to go IMO, it's great that Google makes it easier to get that experience.

For now. Android has shown us exactly how Google treats their "open source" products once they have rid themselves entirely of viable competition.

Google really has become the late-90s, early-2000s Microsoft. First they "embrace" by releasing a product as open source. Then they "extend" by packaging the official release of the product with their own proprietary functionality. Then they "extinguish" by slowly siphoning functionality from the open source project into their own proprietary extensions (see Google Play Services).

Re: The endless browser wars

#114
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Safari's JS engine is open source: https://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Source/JavaScriptCore

My mistake, thanks. TIL. Is it used in any fully Free and Open Source browser?

Yes, many. Every WebKitGTK based browser [1] will use JSC, so that includes the "GNOME Web" web browser, Midori, and a host of smaller niche browsers.

[1] https://webkitgtk.org/

Re: The endless browser wars

#115
This is rather written in the perspective of "shame on google for removing these API keys", but it feels to me that this should be a (small, incomplete, but still a) win for open source; if I want to run an open source, free browser, I don't want it phoning home to Google every day.

There's a separate problem in that Chromium isn't capable of any other ways of more freely and openly syncing the things it used to sync to Google's servers. But when thinking about any open source software, I feel that its important to separate "things it does which I don't want it to do" and "things I wish it did". In other words, code which was written that doesn't serve the users' interests, and code which could serve the users' interests if it were written. I don't believe its productive to worry or complain about the latter; its more productive to just write it, file feature requests, etc. Of course, in Chromium's case, its unlikely they'd be accepted, but that's a separate, third issue.

I also disagree with the article's position that Firefox isn't a valid alternative. Firefox is somewhere within the range of 98% to 102% as good as Chrome, depending on the website you're visiting. By comparison, I would place Safari (the only other real alternate browser on any OS) at 92%-96%. Firefox is a fantastic browser which can absolutely replace Chrome/Chromium, and should be used by more people if for no other reason than to add more balance to the Big Three. Throw out the FOSS ideals for just a second; there are effectively three browsers left, and the most ideal marketshare for those three is 33% each, given that the primary long-term benefit and risk from marketshare is, at the end of the day, power toward influencing the future of the web. Power should be distributed, always.

And this is hardly contentious, but the industry need a 4th browser. I would rank this as the single most important project any company, group, or individual could commit productivity to at this time. Of course, important things are rarely easy, but to me, it doesn't even matter if its open or closed source; open source would be better, but what matters far more is distributing power further.

Re: The endless browser wars

#116
post #115

This is rather written in the perspective of "shame on google for removing these API keys", but it feels to me that this should be a (small, incomplete, but still a) win for open source; if I want to run an open source, free browser, I don't want it phoning home to Google every day. There's a separate problem in that Chromium isn't capable of any other ways of more freely and openly syncing the things it used to sync…

> if I want to run an open source, free browser, I don't want it phoning home to Google every day.

Exactly, it feels more like a win than a loss from where I stand

Re: The endless browser wars

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My mistake, thanks. TIL. Is it used in any fully Free and Open Source browser?

Yes, many. Every WebKitGTK based browser [1] will use JSC, so that includes the "GNOME Web" web browser, Midori, and a host of smaller niche browsers. [1] https://webkitgtk.org/

Neat. Konqueror uses a different engine, right?

Re: The endless browser wars

#120
Even if Firefox falls by the wayside and websites stop working with it somehow, making Blink (and Webkit) a monopoly (which I think is a very important thing to prevent and is the reason I use Firefox even if I don't have the warmest feelings toward Mozilla), I don't think that the free sync API being removed means that everyone will have to use Google Chrome. The major Chromium projects—Brave, Vivaldi, and Edge—all already use their own sync engines independent of Google.
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