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HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

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Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#111

Post by arrosenberg »

yters wrote: post #84
arrosenberg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally, no. Ethically...maybe? The United States does have a long tradition of allowing grey areas when rightsholders become unreasonable. Oftentimes these wind up being formalized as right-of-ways, easements, or other access rights. In the case of online streaming, its clear that the rightsholders are consolidated and engaged in monopolistic, anti-consumer behavior. Piracy is a natural response to that type of beha…

No one has a right to someone else's labor.

Likewise, the rightsholders don't have a right to extort the public for access. Since the companies producing these works rely on the public's attention and sentiment to make money, they can't have it both ways. Either make the works available at a consistent price to all distributors of content, or accept piracy as a cost of gatekeeping.

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#112

Post by realityking »

me_me_me wrote: post #103
bosie wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First of all I am not stealing, you haven't lost anything. So in the future when he provides you with the format you pirated you will purchase it? Despite having pirated it before?

Yeah, well I have done similar thing. I bought a games that I pirated in the past. I am not saying piracy is great everyone should be doing it. My argument is: I am sometimes lazy and tired after a long day. I want to watch a movie i heard was good. I can spend 15 mins trying to figure out where to watch it or I can pirate it after it doesnt come up in netflix search. but i am not going to pay for 10 subscriptions ju…

> I can spend 15 mins trying to figure out where to watch it or I can pirate it after it doesnt come up in netflix search.

Almost any movie you care about will be available on iTunes and/or Amazon Video to rent or buy. Do you check those too or is that too much work?

Ultimately, your attitude comes off as entitled. If everything you w

Any to consume isn’t available as part of one convince the subscription you rather pirate it. That devalues creation. It’s unreasonable to expect all TV and movies ever created to be available for $20/month.

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#113

Post by realityking »

sputr wrote: post #67
gonehome wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is hard to get into without context. Copyright (and patents) exist "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." The purpose is to promote the progress of science and useful arts for the public's benefit, the means is a limited time monopoly. The limited time rights are intended to be…

A very good comment. I would like to point out to everyone that the correct expression to use in these discussions is rights holder NOT author . Anyone still imagining this as a fight between pirate and "author" is strongly misled. Most people will happily support the author - just look at youtube/patreon. But most are also aware that buying or pirating a book ... has very little to do with the author in either case.

The author presumably got paid at some point and how much directly relates to how long the new rights holder will be able to monetize the creation.

If a book is only copyrighted for, say, 5 years after creation, the advances for authors will become a lot smaller.

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#114

Post by semanticsbitch »

wahern wrote: post #108
hedora wrote: post #2

Similar shenanigans are the reason I cancelled Disney+. I’ll pay a monthly fee for your entire back library. Otherwise, no thanks. Also, what’s the ethical issue with pirating content that is not for sale? I’d love to see a copyright overhaul that formalized abandonware and extended it to back catalogs of film and music. That way, people could legally torrent everything currently missing from these streaming platform…

> Also, what’s the ethical issue with pirating content that is not for sale? The ethical issue with piracy is that you can't expect to change behaviors or the laws if you merely circumvent them, and circumvent them without substantial risk of punishment. Take the Civil Rights movement, for example. They disobeyed unjust laws in protest, but they succeeded in their cause because they were often punished for the disobe…

You sound like a little bitch

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#116

Post by realityking »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #47
realityking wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of content is not available as streaming flat rates but via various rental or purchase platforms (iTunes, Amazon Video, etc.) There’s no (and there should be no) obligation to make things available for bargain dollars. If the publisher things the movie is worth a $15 dollar purchase or $8 rental, they can charge that. It’s our right not to watch it if we don’t think it’s worth that.

You're implicitly accepting the frame that copyright is an inherent right that should be granted, rather than a privilege extended to copyright holders on public policy grounds. If copyright owners do more rent-seeking and offer evermore complicated and user-hostile deals, it's well within the purview of our government to alter the terms of copyright extension for public policy purposes. In other words, there's an im…

> You're implicitly accepting the frame that copyright is an inherent right that should be granted, rather than a privilege extended to copyright holders on public policy grounds.

I didn’t make a judgement on this but You’re right that copyright is granted by society but so are many rights, e.g. the idea that an individual can own land.

Copyright exists because we live in a capitalist society and we want creators of intellectual property to partake in this economic system. Without copyright, author would not be a profession. That is the basic reason. Everything else are trade-offs and implementation details but we should remember why copyright exists in the first place.

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#117

Post by anotherman554 »

vorpalhex wrote: post #63
khazhoux wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up, it was acceptable to shoot a Rodian before giving him a chance to shoot you. But blackface is clearly prohibited today. So there's two choices for art like this: edit it, or it doesn't get shown publicly again. I'm only arguing that I'd prefer the former to the latter.

There's a third choice - just show it unedited. Put a disclaimer if needed. You can still buy a copy of mein kampf and read the loonery Hitler wrote. You don't learn from history by denying it's existence.

I'd be fine with making the mouse cartoon available for people who want to study/ experience cartoon history but not showing it unedited on a streaming service where most people who watch it are kids.

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#118

Post by mk81 »

wahern wrote: post #108
hedora wrote: post #2

Similar shenanigans are the reason I cancelled Disney+. I’ll pay a monthly fee for your entire back library. Otherwise, no thanks. Also, what’s the ethical issue with pirating content that is not for sale? I’d love to see a copyright overhaul that formalized abandonware and extended it to back catalogs of film and music. That way, people could legally torrent everything currently missing from these streaming platform…

> Also, what’s the ethical issue with pirating content that is not for sale? The ethical issue with piracy is that you can't expect to change behaviors or the laws if you merely circumvent them, and circumvent them without substantial risk of punishment. Take the Civil Rights movement, for example. They disobeyed unjust laws in protest, but they succeeded in their cause because they were often punished for the disobe…

Good post. Self-styled revolutionaries who are proud of themselves for torrenting consequence-free rub me the wrong way too.

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#119

Post by semanticsbitch »

mk81 wrote: post #118
wahern wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, what’s the ethical issue with pirating content that is not for sale? The ethical issue with piracy is that you can't expect to change behaviors or the laws if you merely circumvent them, and circumvent them without substantial risk of punishment. Take the Civil Rights movement, for example. They disobeyed unjust laws in protest, but they succeeded in their cause because they were often punished for the disobe…

Good post. Self-styled revolutionaries who are proud of themselves for torrenting consequence-free rub me the wrong way too.

Damn, tech people really have become cunts

Re: HBO Max is failing the classic Tom and Jerry

#120

Post by yters »

5560675260 wrote: post #98
yters wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe even technocratic communism would fail for the same reasons that agrarian and industrial communism failed. Lack of incentive to work hard, Goodhardt's law, destruction of those who try to retain property rights, etc. Even today's open source movement is very parasitic on the commercial sector. Without big tech companies OS would disappear.

I don't thinks that lack of legal protections for IP is in any way an equivalent to communism. Money would still be on the table, it's just the way they are gained would be somewhat different. IP as a concept isn't even that old and our societies managed to exist, produce works of arts and various services just fine. As for the big tech firms - why wouldn't they exist? Would Google be disrupted if tomorrow all patent…

Well, as someone who may create IP, I would like recourse to the legal system in order to enforce ownership of what I create. I imagine there are many people like me.
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