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Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

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Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#271

Post by gambiting »

__s wrote: post #267
gambiting wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that part, I don't understand the part where people find it acceptable to tip the delivery person. It's just not ok, unless they brought your fridge up the stairs or something then sure, I'll slip in a little something for the effort. But an amazon delivery driver? Where they drop the parcel at my door, ring the doorbell and leave? Why would I ever tip them? The same with food delivery drivers - I open t…

Also a Canadian, Ontario. I didn't think to tip delivery, but my girlfriend at the time would include a tip when putting cash on the table for when it arrived. My mother's friend tips at Tim Horton's drive thru. So it likely varies a lot between various demographics The hassle is that even if a place charges more for food, you don't know if they pay their service better. So if you're going to support the "no tips" ag…

" So if you're going to support the "no tips" agenda you'll have to put in the additional effort of looking up wages to decide Starbucks is better than Tim Horton's"

I just....don't see why. I honestly don't get an argument why. When you get a plumber do you check how much they earn per hour and decide accordingly?

Like seriously, it's the biggest scam the restaurant industry has managed to pull off - they are making customers a) worry about this stuff at all, even though you wouldn't for pretty much any other industry b) make them feel bad for not tipping if the company pays poorly. That's incredible. And it's so incredibly condescending towards the workers too "oh you poor slave, you are paid so little, I'll give you some extra cash so you can actually live like a normal human being". There's probably some kind of syndrome that fits this situation.

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#272

Post by oblio »

dagw wrote: post #259
beckman466 wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can we talk about why service is astronomically better in the US than countries with very high worker protections and base wages like Denmark? I’m curious why ‘good service‘ is important for you? Have you worked a service job yourself? It’s long gruelling hours.

I’m curious why ‘good service‘ is important for you? Because the whole point of going out to eat instead of cooking at home is to have an enjoyable and stress free experience. If it takes 20 minutes before someone asks what I want to drink, then 60 minutes to get food, you cannot answer any questions about what is on the menu and half the people get the wrong thing and then that completely ruins what should be an enj…

As I mentioned another comment, expectations.

Waiters in Europe are not necessarily slow or less knowledgeable, and waiters in the US are not necessarily fast or knowledgeable. What US waiters are, is visibly polite (obsequious, even?) and ever present.

In Europe it's perfectly normal to have a rather rude waiter who takes your order quickly and your food not long after that. They can also be efficient and know the menu in detail, albeit being colder when you discuss with them.

The shock Americans experience is probably due to the frequent stone faces of waiters in Europe.

That's what real people look like when they're not conditioned to always smile and instead they smile when... they feel good :-)

Say no to PanAm smiles :-D

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#273

Post by Cederfjard »

globular-toast wrote: post #226
imgabe wrote: post #9

Just do away with tips. It's a terrible and stupid system. If you want to do it as a customer, go ahead, but it should never be considered as part of the employee's compensation. If people aren't willing to do the job for the hourly wage alone with no tips, raise the wage until they are.

I have the same problem with any "bonuses". Everyone who is paid a bonus inevitably starts thinking about it as part of their income. Banks don't help this as many of them will take bonuses into account when supplying loans. But your employer doesn't think of bonuses this way. Your employer thinks of a bonus as part of your pay they can take away at a moment's notice for any reason at all. Many of them will try to pu…

Isn’t the whole point of bonuses to make a position more attractive, by offering a possible total compensation that’s higher than would be financially feasible/responsible if it was all guaranteed? So might be a worthwhile trade-off for an employee, depending on their appetite for risk.

Unless you think it’s a scam and most companies could afford to pay you the higher salary but decide not to. I’m not sure that would be very sustainable though.

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#274

Post by johannes1234321 »

reader_mode wrote: post #261
imtringued wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's ridiculous. If you're not qualified to judge the value of service to yourself then your probably not qualified for a lot of spending decisions in your life. I can trivially judge the necessity of service but unless I am an expert in the domain I cannot judge the quality of service and very often the entire point of the service is to outsource expertise. I sent my car in for an oil change. They didn't replace…

>I can trivially judge the necessity of service but unless I am an expert in the domain I cannot judge the quality of service and very often the entire point of the service is to outsource expertise. The entire point of this service is to improve your subjective experience - if you can't evaluate that then you probably need a legal guardian.

I can judge whether I had a good time, but is it the waiter's time things took long or was somebody in the kitchen slow or some other customer holding them up? Is the stain on the table the fault from the waiter not replacing everything or the boss's policy? etc. And if the food and my company is great even the worst waiter has little impact in that.

The waiter is the face of the establishment, but there are many things out of the control of even the best server.

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#275

Post by __s »

gambiting wrote: post #271
__s wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a Canadian, Ontario. I didn't think to tip delivery, but my girlfriend at the time would include a tip when putting cash on the table for when it arrived. My mother's friend tips at Tim Horton's drive thru. So it likely varies a lot between various demographics The hassle is that even if a place charges more for food, you don't know if they pay their service better. So if you're going to support the "no tips" ag…

" So if you're going to support the "no tips" agenda you'll have to put in the additional effort of looking up wages to decide Starbucks is better than Tim Horton's" I just....don't see why. I honestly don't get an argument why. When you get a plumber do you check how much they earn per hour and decide accordingly? Like seriously, it's the biggest scam the restaurant industry has managed to pull off - they are making…

Sure, but reality is that minimum wage laws exclude waiter positions on the basis of tipping. So if you're anti tipping you should at least make sure you're avoiding places paying less than minimum wage. & you can't know just by looking at the menu

I worked ice cream vending (https://serprex.github.io/w/Ice%20Cream%20Biker if someone wants to read a very dry recount of my first day) where half my income was from tips. The prices of the items were generally like 2.75 to encourage getting me the extra quarter. It's a weird way that the business can leverage advertising a lower price while allowing tips to average out to cover a shitty wage

Here's a cbc article on the topic where a no tips experiment failed: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/caf%C3%A9-linnea-all...

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#276

Post by dagw »

oblio wrote: post #272
dagw wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m curious why ‘good service‘ is important for you? Because the whole point of going out to eat instead of cooking at home is to have an enjoyable and stress free experience. If it takes 20 minutes before someone asks what I want to drink, then 60 minutes to get food, you cannot answer any questions about what is on the menu and half the people get the wrong thing and then that completely ruins what should be an enj…

As I mentioned another comment, expectations. Waiters in Europe are not necessarily slow or less knowledgeable, and waiters in the US are not necessarily fast or knowledgeable. What US waiters are, is visibly polite (obsequious, even?) and ever present. In Europe it's perfectly normal to have a rather rude waiter who takes your order quickly and your food not long after that. They can also be efficient and know the m…

I'm European, live in Europe, and I'm perfectly aware of the service in European restaurants. I still expect "good service" when I go out to eat. I don't care about smiles or being "warm", I care about fast, efficient and correct service.

I'm not advocating the US way of doing things, and certainly don't think the service in the US is better on the whole, in fact in many ways it's worse. However what I have found is that the worst service I've had in the US is far better than the worst service I've had in Europe. I've never had terrible service in the US, and I certainly can't say the same about Europe.

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#277

Post by nixass »

dagw wrote: post #256
nixass wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you need to be seated? Casual restaurants in Europe are normally free to set wherever you want. The menus are normally at the table, waiter acknowledges you by offering drinks and by the time he's back you're ready to order food. I don't wanna assume but US customers seem very spoiled

I don't wanna assume but US customers seem very spoiled If you think that expecting your first drinks order to be on the table within 20 minutes of walking in the door is being "spoiled" then you have pretty low standards.

Anecdotal. I mane my conclusion in previous post.

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#278

Post by ceejayoz »

nmca wrote: post #217
emptysongglass wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we talk about why service is astronomically better in the US than countries with very high worker protections and base wages like Denmark? I'm genuinely curious what you think the factors are in their difference because when I live in Denmark (as I do now) it feels like the waiter could give less of a s** whether the service is good or not whereas when I live in LA or NYC I feel like I am the golden child of thei…

An entire section of society so precariously clings to financial stability that they'll smile at at any customer's joke...

Yup. "The hostages are smiling at me, that must mean they like me!"

Re: Amazon shortchanged drivers $61.7M in tips

#280

Post by sokoloff »

imgabe wrote: post #9

Just do away with tips. It's a terrible and stupid system. If you want to do it as a customer, go ahead, but it should never be considered as part of the employee's compensation. If people aren't willing to do the job for the hourly wage alone with no tips, raise the wage until they are.

I’m pretty sure that a lot of cash tips go unreported as income, which many recipients see as a feature.
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