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The reverse brain drain

bbc.co.uk

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Re: The reverse brain drain

#21

Post by olegious »

known wrote: post #15
radicaldreamer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we get some objective data or examples for these claims?

Former USSR republics are doing better than India http://doingbusiness.org/rankings Georgia - 12, Estonia - 17, Lithuania - 23 Latvia - 24, Kyrgyzstan - 44, Armenia - 48, Azerbaijan - 54, Kazakhstan - 59, Belarus - 68, Moldova - 90, Russia - 123, . INDIA - 134 CARS PER 1000 PEOPLE Moldova - 49, Azerbaijan - 51, Belarus - 87, Ukraine - 140, Kazakhstan - 170, Russia - 213, Latvia - 372, Estonia - 410, Lithuania - 453 .…

Can't compare India to former Soviet countries- the Soviet countries had a much better infrastructure/educational/standard of living base.

In some former Soviet countries (Moldova for example), the standard of living has declined since the 80s, India on the other hand, seems to be improving.

Re: The reverse brain drain

#22

Post by dimmuborgir »

known wrote: post #14
wmboy wrote: post #2

India is definitely a country to watch. With China's one-child-per-family rule, it could very well be India that becomes the new super power in the next 20-50 years...

Unlike China, India is a multicultural society. India might disintegrate like USSR in next 20-50 years http://www.lewrockwell.com/sowell/sowell24.1.html

Are you trolling or something? The article mentions neither USSR nor India.

And FYI, the disintegration of USSR was due to economic crisis because of Socialism. India abandoned Socialism soon after the collapse of Soviet Russia and embraced American capitalism and the Indian economy is booming now.

Re: The reverse brain drain

#23

Post by bruce511 »

garyrichardson wrote: post #6
microarchitect wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like this to be true, but I can't help thinking that much of this is just wishful thinking. India has terrible infrastructure, which as far as I can make out is only getting worse. All-pervasive corruption is a big problem as well, as is the fact that _all_ (at least something like 85% or more) politicians are criminals. The (completely unscientific) impression I get is that things got better between 1995-2005 an…

I suspect 85% of all the worlds politicians are criminals. The sort of people who are willing to do anything to get ahead excel at politics.

No, that's inaccurate. Bear in mind there's a difference between criminal behaviour, and, well, morally corrupt behaviour.

There are also broadly speaking two kinds of politicians. Those in countries where the quickest way to riches are to be part of the government, and those where it's easier to make really big money outside the government. In the former people are attracted to politics strictly for the money, whereas in the latter there are other desires (like fame, power and so on). The ones in it for the money are more likely to see government money as their own money and accumulate as much of that as possible.

The real problem with corruption though is not politicians. It's the civil service. While polititians set policy, and create laws, it is the civil service that we interact with every day. Corrupt cops, customs & border officials, judges, and so on have a far more devastating effect on every-day life than some minister or senator that buries a million here or a million there.

I'm not arguing for corrupt politicians - of course that's bad - they set the tone, and ultimately have the power to condone or condemn bribes and other considerations in the civil service. And of course politicians steal more in absolute terms, to the point where infrastructure is compromised - but the real "daily" damage is done when each transaction comes with an "informal tax".

Now if you want to talk moral behavior - then I agree there is definitely room for improvement. The whole concept of campaign funding means that elected officials are bought and paid for by those with the cash to spend.

Re: The reverse brain drain

#24

Post by wisty »

dimmuborgir wrote: post #16
microarchitect wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like this to be true, but I can't help thinking that much of this is just wishful thinking. India has terrible infrastructure, which as far as I can make out is only getting worse. All-pervasive corruption is a big problem as well, as is the fact that _all_ (at least something like 85% or more) politicians are criminals. The (completely unscientific) impression I get is that things got better between 1995-2005 an…

Are you saying that Chinese authorities are not corrupt? Did the state controlled media of China make you believe so? Take a look at Corruption Index published by Transparency International: http://transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/... Both China and India are the same. In fact, with free-media, India has a greater chance of tackling corruption in the future than China.

This index is about transparency, corruption, and accountability. India is transparent, but corrupt. China lacks transparency, but bribery is rare.

In India, you have to pay small (or large) bribes to get anything done. You are faced with a bureaucracy which wants to trip you up with red tape, to force you to pay more bribes. This is not conductive to small business.

China really falls apart when it comes to bigger businesses. State owned enterprises get preferential treatment for all kinds of things, especially funding. And bigger businesses have to follow regulations more carefully.

Re: The reverse brain drain

#25

Post by dimmuborgir »

wisty wrote: post #24
dimmuborgir wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that Chinese authorities are not corrupt? Did the state controlled media of China make you believe so? Take a look at Corruption Index published by Transparency International: http://transparency.org/policy_research/surveys_indices/cpi/... Both China and India are the same. In fact, with free-media, India has a greater chance of tackling corruption in the future than China.

This index is about transparency, corruption, and accountability. India is transparent, but corrupt. China lacks transparency, but bribery is rare. In India, you have to pay small (or large) bribes to get anything done. You are faced with a bureaucracy which wants to trip you up with red tape, to force you to pay more bribes. This is not conductive to small business. China really falls apart when it comes to bigger b…

Any source that China is more conducive to small businesses than India?

Re: The reverse brain drain

#26

Post by known »

dimmuborgir wrote: post #20
known wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Former USSR republics are doing better than India http://doingbusiness.org/rankings Georgia - 12, Estonia - 17, Lithuania - 23 Latvia - 24, Kyrgyzstan - 44, Armenia - 48, Azerbaijan - 54, Kazakhstan - 59, Belarus - 68, Moldova - 90, Russia - 123, . INDIA - 134 CARS PER 1000 PEOPLE Moldova - 49, Azerbaijan - 51, Belarus - 87, Ukraine - 140, Kazakhstan - 170, Russia - 213, Latvia - 372, Estonia - 410, Lithuania - 453 .…

We're talking about whether India has made progress from its own past. Why are you bringing former Soviet states for comparison?

Why shouldn't I compare India (born in 1947) with Soviet states (born in 1991)? Do HDI or Wikipedia or I need your permission?

Re: The reverse brain drain

#27

Post by known »

dimmuborgir wrote: post #22
known wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike China, India is a multicultural society. India might disintegrate like USSR in next 20-50 years http://www.lewrockwell.com/sowell/sowell24.1.html

Are you trolling or something? The article mentions neither USSR nor India. And FYI, the disintegration of USSR was due to economic crisis because of Socialism. India abandoned Socialism soon after the collapse of Soviet Russia and embraced American capitalism and the Indian economy is booming now.

FYI

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_mobility != http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_mobility

Re: The reverse brain drain

#28

Post by known »

dimmuborgir wrote: post #19
w1ntermute wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the presence of bad things doesn't mean you can ignore a huge upswing in living standards all over a country of a billion+ people. You can say that about China, but not about India. Things have not improved much for the average Indian. In fact, in many places it's gotten worse.

What are you talking about? The UN's Millennium Development Goal (MDG) report says: "India is expected to reduce its poverty rate from 51 per cent in 1990 to 24 per cent in 2015, reducing its number of extremely poor by 188 million." http://news.outlookindia.com/item.aspx?685779

As per BBC, 80% Indians surviving on 20 rupees/day http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6946800.stm

Re: The reverse brain drain

#29

Post by known »

dimmuborgir wrote: post #25
wisty wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This index is about transparency, corruption, and accountability. India is transparent, but corrupt. China lacks transparency, but bribery is rare. In India, you have to pay small (or large) bribes to get anything done. You are faced with a bureaucracy which wants to trip you up with red tape, to force you to pay more bribes. This is not conductive to small business. China really falls apart when it comes to bigger b…

Any source that China is more conducive to small businesses than India?

http://doingbusiness.org/rankings

  China - 79
  India - 134

Re: The reverse brain drain

#30

Post by known »

India is developing since you can exploit Indians via caste system. http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/may/03touch.htm

China is developing since you can exploit Chinese by abusing human rights. http://www.rediff.com/business/slide-show/slide-show-1-tech-...

Americans are suffering since US regime is letting Chindia exploit their people via outsourcing.

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