Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 94 posts

Re: Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape

#61

Post by cannabis_sam »

Koiwai wrote: post #31
MattGaiser wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> which China says exist for the "re-education" of the Uighurs and other minorities. Even China does not deny the camps. The disagreement almost seems to depend on whether "re-education" is considered sinister. In the West? Obviously. In China? That is apparently a normal thing to admit to doing.

[flagged]

Why do you ask this question?

Usually, internment camps are bad.

Meanwhile, there is true testimony.

Also, why are Uyghurs singled out?

Obviously this isn’t about poverty.

Re: Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape

#62

Post by wruza »

yorwba wrote: post #59
wruza wrote: post #9

Wikipedia reports that Han and Uighur are mutual friends socially in their home region (around 70% and 80% reported some relationships), and also notes some historical issues, but nothing contemporary. Why does China govt hate them so much, uncut version?

> Why does China govt hate them so much, uncut version? They do not. Many of the men raping Uighur women are socially friends with Uighurs. Many of them are Uighurs themselves. Some of them are probably socially friends with the women they're raping. They're not raping women because that's somehow part of the Chinese government's plan to assimilate Uighurs, rather, they're doing it because they want sex, they're in a…

That is well-known (gulag, etc). You give the green light to all sorts of scums and they do it without explicit directives. But it doesn’t explain why. CCP embraces very high risks with this route, while more ‘liberal’ routes exist. Even from a cynical point of view, today it feels more like an irrational hate rather than ideological issues.

Re: Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape

#63

Post by anm89 »

tim333 wrote: post #53
anm89 wrote: post #47

It's interesting how common to see on somewhere like reddit "if Hitler was alive today I'd go shoot him/whatever/blah blah blah" but I think the general sentiment that people wouldn't stand for another holocaust today is pretty widely accepted. And yet here we are with it happening in plain sight and it doesn't seem to bother too many people.

It's not quite another holocaust. The closest we've had in recent times was the 'Genocide of Yazidis by ISIL' and while the world was a bit slow to react they did eventually go kill most of ISIL which is probably the appropriate response to that. I'm not quite sure what's appropriate for China and the Uighurs - it's not quite bad enough to bomb China but some serious trade sanctions could be in order.

I mean nothing will ever be exactly another holocaust. I think that's the point I'm making. There will never be another German guy with a funny mustache in a brown suit, gassing an ethnic group in showers.

But here we have

- concentration camps and large scale forced detention and labor - organized genocide (admittedly on a much smaller scale than the holocaust) - systematic rape and organ harvesting

I mean if you had to assign some negative utility score to both events I'm sure you could easily argue the Holocaust was worse, but I think that misses the point. Once you check all of those boxes, you are dealing with the same category of thing.

Re: Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape

#64

Post by AnimalMuppet »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #43
MattGaiser wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am surprised that the Chinese government so openly admits to behavior much of the rest of the world finds horrifying. I was also commenting on how people deny the camps exist even when the Chinese themselves admit they exist.

> I am surprised that the Chinese government so openly admits to behavior much of the rest of the world finds horrifying. They don't admit it, they whitewash atrocities by saying the camps are for "re-education".

Which, if you look at the history of "re-education", is still horrifying.

Re: Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape

#65

Post by yorwba »

wruza wrote: post #62
yorwba wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does China govt hate them so much, uncut version? They do not. Many of the men raping Uighur women are socially friends with Uighurs. Many of them are Uighurs themselves. Some of them are probably socially friends with the women they're raping. They're not raping women because that's somehow part of the Chinese government's plan to assimilate Uighurs, rather, they're doing it because they want sex, they're in a…

That is well-known (gulag, etc). You give the green light to all sorts of scums and they do it without explicit directives. But it doesn’t explain why . CCP embraces very high risks with this route, while more ‘liberal’ routes exist. Even from a cynical point of view, today it feels more like an irrational hate rather than ideological issues.

> CCP embraces very high risks with this route, while more ‘liberal’ routes exist.

Which more liberal routes are you thinking of, and how would the government actually implement them with the resources at their disposal?

Re: Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape

#66

Post by _9hey »

anm89 wrote: post #24
_9hey wrote: post #6

This needs wider awareness. Communism is awful in every form. The Chinese government is not guiltless!

I say this as potentially the world's biggest disliker of communism... this really has nothing to do with communism.

Sure it does. Communism empowers tyrants who abuse the people. Every time.

Re: Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape

#67

Post by _9hey »

xnyan wrote: post #21
_9hey wrote: post #6

This needs wider awareness. Communism is awful in every form. The Chinese government is not guiltless!

>Communism is awful in every form Does not follow. If I can give you several examples of capitalist neo-liberals doing terrible things, then by this line of reasoning capitalism is bad in every form, right? What economic aspect of China is particularly communist anyway? They wave a red flag around and call their president/prime minister/tsar/whatever a general secretary, but they clearly are or soon will have the mos…

Communism is the ideal that empowered the current government of China. Once the abusive tyrants gained power, the economic model became a secondary issue. It follows and there’s a causal relationship between communism and tyranny because they are one in the same. Socialism is merely the marketing campaign.

Re: Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape

#69

Post by dang »

Koiwai wrote: post #30
dijksterhuis wrote: post #12

This was genuinely horrifying to read. Donation link for the Uigher Human Rights Project (mentioned in the article): https://uhrp.org/support

No I don't donate to political agendas, And I despise anyone advocating for them.

Please don't post unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments to Hacker News. It's not what this site is for.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Uighur camp detainees allege systematic rape

#70

Post by stjohnswarts »

naebother wrote: post #18
yellow_lead wrote: post #2

I've posted this a lot, but I think it's important for those who claim Uyghur camps are some sort of Western propaganda. This site documents primary source evidence of victims in Xinjiang. Testimonies from families and friends, court documents, photos, etc. Information on specific camps and seeing victims by city/village is newly available. What's happening there is horrible and consists of many human rights violatio…

Even if it is western propaganda, doesn't mean it's false. Just like any Chinese/Russian/etc propaganda might highlight the abuses of the US state. As individuals, regardless of which country we happen to live in, we shouldn't immediately dismiss any country's propaganda (including our own) just because it's propaganda. Does each side have an incentive to exaggerate or lie about the other? Of course! But if abuses ar…

Even if it's 1/10th the scale people are saying it is indeed still quite horrifying.
Post reply on HN