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I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

drewdevault.com

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Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#751

Post by zamadatix »

vetinari wrote: post #721
zamadatix wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pipewire is definitely the right path when things are complete but right now you have to build with a beta version of Electron with build flags and rutime flags to use a 0.x version of Pipewire and when you do it currently only presents the option to capture the full screen. I.e. it's not that the tech stack or architecure is the wrong it's simply not done yet and not done to the point it's a bit silly to blame Slack…

> only presents the option to capture the full screen Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I had two tabs, one for picking displays and other for picking windows. Pretty much like this: https://bug1675764.bmoattachments.org/attachment.cgi?id=9186...

Looking deeper into it (been meaning to anyways) it seems to be the typical Wayland compositor specific issue, and ironically I'm using ddevault's compositor sway. Pipewire doesn't seem to care what you send it but your second window looks to be part of xdg-desktop-portal-gtk if I'm not mistaken. Since I'm using sway/wlroots I need to use xdg-desktop-portal-wlr instead. In the FAQ for this package:

"Will this let me share individual windows?

No, only entire outputs. It would take significant work in wlroots, and likely a new protocol, to make this possible. A second rendering pass would be required, which would significantly reduce wlroots performance, so this may not be implemented any time soon (or ever).

Will this let me share all of my outputs/displays at once?

Not yet, no. It will likely never create a single stream that combines all of your outputs, but once we implement better output selection, there is no reason xdpw cannot create multiple simultaneous streams of different outputs."

So it looks like I'm shit out of luck for quite a while on sway/wlroots. Looks like Gnome figured it out. Not sure about KDE.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#752

Post by himinlomax »

DiabloD3 wrote: post #93
himinlomax wrote: post #15

Well I wish I could use it, but it simply does not let me run any Steam games at this point.

This is a common misconception, thank you for bringing it up. Wayland and modern post-KMS Xorg do not control your hardware, and have no real ability to do anything with 3D acceleration outside of what Mesa/DRI/DRM/KMS grant them the permission to do. Wayland and Xorg both call the same APIs provided by them, and call them effectively the same way. The side effect of this is fbcon can be ran on modern "all shader/no…

Crashes with my Radeon card, open source drivers. My system is setup properly. Crashed with native game (Stellaris) as well as Proton. I'll give it one more time.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#753

Post by the_why_of_y »

throwaways885 wrote: post #263
formerly_proven wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not just the FOSS community, look at how non technical people react every time gmail, outlook or excel makes a tiny change to the UI (not to mention big ones). It really makes people angry when things don't work the same anymore, let alone when it doesn't even work anymore for their use case. Like you note, this isn't a problem unique to Linux/"free Unixy OSes". In some ways Linux is actually worse than others…

I think a big issue is there's no discipline in the Linux community. The Kernel team has done an amazing job of preserving ABI compatibility through every last byte, but then you look at projects like glib or GNOME which seem to pride themselves on huge, sweeping, changes and don't care if downstream consumers are hurt by the changes. Edit: glib not glibc

> Edit: glib not glibc

glib 2.0 was released in March of 2002, and has preserved ABI compatibility since then.

https://developer.gnome.org/glib/stable/glib-changes.html

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#754

Post by vetinari »

zamadatix wrote: post #751
vetinari wrote: post #721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only presents the option to capture the full screen Are you sure? I'm pretty sure I had two tabs, one for picking displays and other for picking windows. Pretty much like this: https://bug1675764.bmoattachments.org/attachment.cgi?id=9186...

Looking deeper into it (been meaning to anyways) it seems to be the typical Wayland compositor specific issue, and ironically I'm using ddevault's compositor sway. Pipewire doesn't seem to care what you send it but your second window looks to be part of xdg-desktop-portal-gtk if I'm not mistaken. Since I'm using sway/wlroots I need to use xdg-desktop-portal-wlr instead. In the FAQ for this package: "Will this let me…

Ah, that explains it. Yes, I'm running Gnome and xdg-desktop-portal-gtk.

Thanks for the constructive and informative discussion.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#755

Post by [deleted] »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #28

> In the case of Wayland, the “vague authority” are a bunch of volunteers who have devoted tens of thousands of hours of their free time towards making free shit for you. That does not mean anyone is under an obligation to like it. > Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago. If y…

[deleted]

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#756

Post by majewsky »

akho wrote: post #592
ohgodplsno wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand how that gives you dictatorial power over 100s of users who don't like the changes you've made. Those hundreds of user are: 1. A vocal minority, most likely. People happy about it don't go on bug trackers to support devs. 2. Not making the software, not part of the decision making process. Don't like the end result ? Fork it if you have the ability. Give constructive criticism if you want and you…

They are (predominantly) not doing this for free. They are employed by RedHat.

Then they should pay for a RHEL subscription. That includes personal support.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#757

Post by cycloptic »

spion wrote: post #736
cycloptic wrote: post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, Wayland actually is an improvement here, because now you only have to reconcile the configuration between those implementations, compared to before where you had to do that in addition to munging configuration and state stored in the X server and in xorg.conf. It would be nice if all desktops agreed on a configuration format and a default set of options, but I don't know that we will ever get there.

At least between-app DPI inconsistency was not a thing before this. Now its a thing, added to the stack of configuration problems.

If you support multiple DPIs then that will always be an issue, regardless of what display server you're using.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#758

Post by cycloptic »

drran wrote: post #745
cycloptic wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are numerous other graphical environments that Linux runs on where screenshots don't make sense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_on_embedded_systems For debugging purposes, the display server can just dump the screen to a file or a serial port itself. The only reason you would need this in the protocol is so other arbitrary applications could capture the screen.

Screenshots on embedded is very useful in some cases, like debugging, or information sharing or archiving, which often performed by smartphone camera today.

Yes, that's why I said you can have the display server dump it to a file. No protocol support is needed for that.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#759

Post by jjoonathan »

tinus_hn wrote: post #689
jjoonathan wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows patch auto-revert-settings is cancer. It breaks my bluetooth every time and my setup is very typical so it probably does it to millions of others. Details: Bluetooth headphones with microphones actually show up as 3 sound devices, one high quality output device and a pair of low quality input and output devices. Whenever a microphone is requested, the low quality pair is selected. Output quality goes to shit…

Really? A user interface annoyance is a mostly incurable deadly disease?

No, not really.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#760

Post by [deleted] »

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #31

I have no beef with Wayland specifically and I agree that if you are harassing maintainers of any project you're probably an asshole. However, >Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago. I'm a game developer. None of the software I use works reliably or at all on Wayland. None of…

[deleted]
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