Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

drewdevault.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 892 posts

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#61

Post by Shared404 »

ragnese wrote: post #33
darkwater wrote: post #11

Wayland is being treated like PulseAudio and systemd before. So, it will probably win its battle, thanks $DEITY.

I always found systemd to be fine (I'm not a sysadmin, just prefer Linux on my PCs). PulseAudio did have some growing pains, though. I don't remember them exactly, but I remember having to tinker way too much to get apps to work together/correctly between ALSA and PulseAudio, etc. I still have a finicky laptop that REFUSES to do audio over HDMI unless I boot the machine with the HDMI cable plugged in already. No real…

> I always found systemd to be fine (I'm not a sysadmin, just prefer Linux on my PCs).

I mostly agree, although I prefer OpenRC personally. I was bit by

    [*  ] Stopping service 1:30 remaining
too many times to really like SystemD, although I tolerate it on my daily driver these days.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#62

Post by geofft »

Shared404 wrote: post #40
geofft wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know that it does - the author has, as far as I can tell, three small commits in Wayland: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayland/wayland/-/commits/mas...

He also maintains wlroots, which is the base for basically every non-gnome(and KDE?) Wayland compositor/WM.

Ah, thanks! That makes more sense and that explains the "we".

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#63

Post by kuschku »

lmm wrote: post #46
kuschku wrote: post #14

I’m using a Dell UP2718Q (3840x2160, 144dpi, 60Hz) and a Fujitsu Siemens P17-2 (1024x1280, 96dpi, 75Hz) side by side, and without Wayland this setup isn’t even possible to get working properly. Sadly, KDE still doesn’t support it nicely under Wayland (so I moved to Ubuntu Budgie), but under X11 it’s entirely impossible to run it properly, as except for Qt nothing supports mixed DPI, or mixed refresh rates properly. O…

> Sadly, KDE still doesn’t support it nicely under Wayland (so I moved to Ubuntu Budgie), but under X11 it’s entirely impossible to run it properly, as except for Qt nothing supports mixed DPI, or mixed refresh rates properly. Sounds like a roughly equivalent situation either way? Personally I'd sooner use only Qt applications than have to use Gnome.

I’m using (except for firefox) 100% Qt applications under Ubuntu Budgie (which is a bit like elementary but with Wayland support).

The result is good enough for my use case, I don’t have to deal with toy applications and I can use the full crisp resolution.

And thanks to standard protocols, I can use KDE software like KDE Spectacle as screenshot tool or screensharing with Slack, Teams, Jitsi under Budgie just fine.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#64

Post by sixothree »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #28

> In the case of Wayland, the “vague authority” are a bunch of volunteers who have devoted tens of thousands of hours of their free time towards making free shit for you. That does not mean anyone is under an obligation to like it. > Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago. If y…

That amount of negativity on the internet is just astounding sometimes. Technology Connections has called for some positivity in twitter responses. He throws out random crazy suggestions on twitter, as he points out it was designed for. But there is always someone faulting it.

Yesterday I made a casual observation about something quite obvious, and more importantly, completely irrelevant. And without fail, the only response was that it was because of x and y. It isn't.

On facebook, the only way I ever get an answer is to use Cunningham's Law. And I even usually use the words "cunninghams law" in the comments. But it always seems to get me my answer.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#65

Post by patrickaljord »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #28

> In the case of Wayland, the “vague authority” are a bunch of volunteers who have devoted tens of thousands of hours of their free time towards making free shit for you. That does not mean anyone is under an obligation to like it. > Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. More likely, it does work, and you swallowed some propaganda based on an assumption which might have been correct 7 years ago. If y…

> I can certainly understand the frustration at having to deal with a community that gets annoyed at anything that changes simply because they're already so used to the garbage pile they have that they now hold the delusion that it's actually not garbage.

It's not just the FOSS community, look at how non technical people react every time gmail, outlook or excel makes a tiny change to the UI (not to mention big ones). It really makes people angry when things don't work the same anymore, let alone when it doesn't even work anymore for their use case.

> In my admittedly somewhat distanced opinion, Wayland's biggest mistakes were not launching with a coherent strategy for replicating functionality like screen sharing, screenshots, and to a lesser extent remote desktop/applications. They just punted and said "that's a compositor problem!"

My guess is that it wasn't a deliberate strategy, it just that like anything related to the Linux desktop, the project was underfunded so they had to focus on certain issues. In this case it was focusing on improving from xorg and making sure it doesn't break anything on the main use cases of whoever was funding the project (mainly redhat). Apple and Microsoft can afford to pour billions in their display server/protocol/windowing system. Not so much for Linux.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#66

Post by teunispeters »

If I wanted wayland, I'd run windows or MacOSX who both deliver what wayland promises. I'd rather have X11/XWindows, and an internetwork of computers instead of an isolated desktop.

There were better solutions in the past. Still could be, and possibly better solutions for the future.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#67

Post by ChrisRR »

Acting like an arse is not the way to get your point across. Wayland definitely does not work under every use case, but claiming that anyone who does have issues with it is a conspiracy theorist is wrong

Guess what, you're using linux, and these things take time to develop and be adopted. That's the way linux always has been, you trade off less than perfect software for the benefit of endless configuration.

Wayland will be widely adopted one day, but insulting anyone who has issues with it does not help your case.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#68

Post by oytis »

Macha wrote: post #51
oytis wrote: post #27

Tried it on Arch with i3 a year (maybe more) ago. Wasn't really usable back then, switched back to X11. For embedded applications I'd probably start with Wayland, but yeah, for my host machine I'm not motivated enough to be more than a mere user.

Were you running i3 in xwayland? I thought that legacy WMs were inherently tied to X, hence author of this post's own project, Sway

Yes, probably it was xwayland, you're right. At least I can remember it _almost_ working, but not quite, so there should have been something.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#70

Post by [deleted] »

oytis wrote: post #27

Tried it on Arch with i3 a year (maybe more) ago. Wasn't really usable back then, switched back to X11. For embedded applications I'd probably start with Wayland, but yeah, for my host machine I'm not motivated enough to be more than a mere user.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN