Live data from Hacker News

I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

drewdevault.com

11–20 of 892 posts

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#12
> So my new approach is “fuck you”. None of the Wayland detractors have a clue.

Mmmmkay. That's a pretty broad statement, good luck with that attitude!

> I’ve tried appealing to reason and rationally debunking each lie that some Wayland detractor flavor-of-the-week is touting to tow the party line, but it didn’t work.

I guess he's referring to this post? https://drewdevault.com/2019/02/10/Wayland-misconceptions-de...

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#14
I’m using a Dell UP2718Q (3840x2160, 144dpi, 60Hz) and a Fujitsu Siemens P17-2 (1024x1280, 96dpi, 75Hz) side by side, and without Wayland this setup isn’t even possible to get working properly. Sadly, KDE still doesn’t support it nicely under Wayland (so I moved to Ubuntu Budgie), but under X11 it’s entirely impossible to run it properly, as except for Qt nothing supports mixed DPI, or mixed refresh rates properly.

Once proper wide color gamut and bitdepth support is added, it’ll be even better, as the monitors are 10-bit Rec.2020 and 8-bit sRGB. Which under X11 isn’t even possible to support, as again, Xorg only sees one single screen it’s drawing on, and it’s up to the lower levels of the stack to split that.

EDIT: Answering the most common question which is asked all the time as my comment is getting some visibility here:

Now why does wayland break screenshot and keyboard tools? Because "every program is a keylogger by default and can see any event, look at the contents of any window" is a major security issue, especially as it means the entire security model of screen lockers or containerized applications is useless.

Under X11, basically every application you run can trivially escalate itself to root. As even your Zoom client can just listen to your key events when you unlock your screen or use sudo in your terminal, save your password, and tada it can elevate itself. Under X11, there is no security whatsoever, and no separation of privileges.

EDIT2: Why is sandboxing applications important? (a) more and more proprietary software is also released for linux, which you probably shouldn’t trust. And (b) if e.g. your XMPP client is compromised, you don’t want the attacker to gain root.

EDIT3: Yes, screenshot tools and screensharing still works. I can use KDE Spectacle under Budgie or Chrome, and Slack, Teams, Discord, Jitsi all work just fine. OBS requires a patch, but also works nicely. It’s not impossible, it just requires software using it to be updated.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#16
Thank you! Some arguments are just so stupid and misguided, that they don't deserve any consideration. I feel like the Wayland "truthers" are wasting their energy with absurd arguments amounting to "Everyone should use old software because I want them to!"

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#17

I'm not even a wayland developer and I get annoyed by all the posts about wayland not working, I've been running it for years and it Just Works(tm) for me aside from the occasional gotcha.

Which of course means that it must be good enough for everyone, because it works for you.

No, but Wayland is not a bit of software you even think about until it goes wrong. That means the internet gets disproportionately filled with posts about Wayland not working, which presents the wrong image.

When reading up on what desktop environment to use, it's hard to get a balanced view unless there are commenters like this, saying that running Wayland works.

Re: I'm tired of this anti-Wayland horseshit

#20
post #9

> Maybe Wayland doesn’t work for your precious use-case. > Wayland works for almost everyone... Oh good. Tell me how to get XFCE running with Wayland then? I'm not a user of X11 or Wayland, not really. I just picked a DE that I liked. I guess my choice puts me firmly in the anti-Wayland camp though since I won't be running it anytime soon.

That's not a Wayland problem. It's up to XFCE to implement it.
Post reply on HN